Awesome Trip - Dead Patrol

[Tony]

Hi guys - I just returned from another magic trip, and guess what ... my 3.0 Diesel said howzit just 10km otherside of Pietersburg. Just as I got a gap to pass a slow truck, I dropped from 4th to 3rd gear and as the revs started to climb, so the motor died and I limped into the yellow line. Of coarse this was a Sunday morning so I had to get Outsurance to tow into a yard in Pietersburg overnight, then on to Nissan on Monday morning. We got a hire car from outsurance for 24 hrs, and took what could fit in it (an I20 Hyundai) and belted off to the Soutpansberg where we had booked for Sun night. Monday we shot back to Nissan to find that it was something to do with the diesel pump - (a new one goes for around 40k they said) then they decided to send the vehicle to Bosch Diesel & Hydraulics who do all their work for them.
The verdict - once the entire motor was removed was that the diesel control unit failed (not sure why) and on opening up the relevant parts, they discovered that both the gear driving the diesel pump and the internal gear driving it had missing teeth on them and lots of metal filings and bits were everywhere. I was told also that this engine had been opened definitely twice before and that the area where the work was carried out had been put together with loads of white bath silicone instead of a gasket - the silicone was found all over the place and they had to lots of cleaning to try and remove the mess. Anyhow the guy who did the work is called Jaco and was really good and thorough - so if you are planning to break down in Pietersburg give them a call (015) 293-0238/9 and give Nissan a miss!
Anyhow we hired a double cab, loaded up everything and headed up to Mapungubwe for two nights, and then into Kruger for eight nights during which time the Patrol was being worked on. We then left Phalaborwa and headed straight to collect on Thursday morning, coughed up 21k for the repair, dropped off the rental, paid another 9k for that, then went to Nissan and had to pay them R 860.00 for the towing to Bosch!! We then drove to Magoebaskloof for the last two nights and drove around a bit to check that all was ok. The car is going superbly, except I had about 3 high spikes on the madman with the turbo boost of over 1.5 bar, but nothing too serious. When we left on Saturday to come home, and we got onto the toll road and started moving at 100km/h and a little over, suddenly the turbo boost went mad boosting up to 1.7bar all the time unless I lifted my foot off the accelerator or pushed down, then it dropped, but as I pressed down it shot up again. Also I drove up an incline that was not steep, but long-ish and the EGT climbed to 600. Now I was in a state, anyhow I pulled off to fill up and remove the alarm from the madman as I was getting 20 questions from swambo and juniors at the back, and when we left and got back on the freeway everything seemed to go back to normal and the rest of the trip home went perfectly. Once again I am wondering whether this bloody madman is playing up or is it telling the truth?? After all that has been going wrong lately, I have decided that I need to make enquiries on the price of a new engine - a replacement vehicle is not an option as I have bonded with this car and would'nt want to drive anything else but a Patrol. Graham says I should sell it and buy a petrol but I have really enjoyed the diesel, and besides I don't think I could handle the consumption! Anyone got some 2 cents worth - or better still a good contact for a replacement motor. Cheers

[Alex Roux]

Hi Tony

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry about the misfortune.
Should you necessarily change the engine? See this thread: http://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.ph ... 6&start=20
Why don't you get it checked out by SAC Diesel in Centurion? (Madman and engine?)
Also, why not consider further mods to keep the EGT down?
I enjoy me replacement Petrol engine, but I have to tell you, the consumption hurts.

[Tony]

Mynhart at SAC has done three dyno's on the car, and has installed the madman. When I kept bitching about the erratic readings I have been having from the unit I got the distinct impression that he was getting irritated with me, and eventually looked at the installation - after telling me that there was nothing wrong at all with the installation / or the unit, and then tells me that all madman gauges react the same on all the Patrols - so live with it!!! As you can imagine, I am not a great fan of SAC. I mean, if he knew the problem up front, then why did'nt he come clean then. I even had Graham Cumming speak to him and he got the same reply.
Why replace the engine - it's just the comment passed by Jaco at Bosch when he worked on the engine and found what he did, all he said to me after doing his best to clean up the mess was... "Oom, ek voel regtig nie lekker oor die' enjin nie" and coming from a man of his background and experience, it makes me think... Also, having bought 2nd hand at 120 000 km I have no idea what the car was subjected to. Jaco also said that the engine had been worked on / opened up at least two times before that he could see, and had been put back together so badly - Yes I have done 65 000 km with it like that, and yes she runs very nicely, but what reliability can I expect from this engine, bearing in mind that I do mostly long holiday runs and would like to do Botswana next year. After this and a number of other issues in the past, my family are not keen to drive in the Patrol in case we stand on the side of the road again.

[Alex Roux]

Tony

If you really love that chassis and drivetrain, and you only ever want to monitor the fuel gauge, given your experience thus far, then (and only then) I would recommend the Lexus.
If a job well done, there are very few things as reliable as that.
But, with 33" tires, and a body+suspension lift, plus bull bar & roofrack, I get between 5.3 and 6 km per liter.
Not great. But no EGT and lots of horses to play with.

[Tony]

I've heard about that - but petrol, and not the greatest range. Horses don't interest me, I want a long distance cruiser that can pass without any hassles, climb hills without gearing down too much and sip juice rather than glug!! Oh and it can only be a Patrol - after riding almost 2000 km in a NP300 D/C we all could'nt wait to enjoy the comfort of the Patrol, especially on dirt, and the dust in the bak - we won't talk about that !!

[Tinus lotz]

Tony....put in a 4.2 good 30l second hand is hard to find and to rebuild is going to be expensive is there really needed to replace the motor?

[Tony]

Tinus - what other problems could this engine give me after this last problem, and with what the guys had to say about the state that they found it in concerns me. Ok, my last problem was an alternator, the previous one was radiator, before that was a crank seal - not all the engine's fault, I also did 65 000 km with the engine slapped together like that. My problem is that my family (me as well) no longer trusts the vehicle to get us where we want to go, or back for that matter, and in order to win them over, i'm going to have to do something radical (and i'm not selling my pride & joy and buying something else) so my thoughts have been to give her an engine transplant and just maybe the problems i've been having will be a thing of the past! I have already replaced the entire cooling system (ie visco fan; water pump; thermostat & radiator), turbo and alternator, so adding a new engine will leave very little of the old parts behind - or am I thinking in the wrong direction??

[Tinus lotz]

Imho ......30 diesels are great until they break period......the new generation ones seems to be doing better that means post 2004 ...
have a look at what you have spend on trying to get a engine you can trust ?
The problem is some one did a bad job on it and sold it to you .......I will now also worry about the rest of the engine if the parts are siliconed together .
a engine transplant might be a good idea if you can get a good motor mabe a jap import or something like that ?
the problem that you now have is not your patrol but the motor is giving gray hair ....if you can get a good one your problems will be a thing of the past .....mabe just change the complete car for a 4.5 or a 4.8 and when it stops you know that if you fill the tank it will go again ?

[Peter Connan]

Tony, these 3l diesels worry me. Everybody I know who owns one is continually stressing about the reliability of the thing.

But on the other hand, virtually every transplant I know of give hobbos of teething issues before they are fully sorted.

The only engine that I feel is a suitable alternative given your stated requirements is to try and find a 4.2 TDI bakkie that has been written of in a roll and transplant that, but it will not deliver the level of performance or fuel consumption you are used to.

If it was me, I would swop the car for a 4.5, and make peace with the fuel consumption and range...

[Alex Roux]

Tony

If I may summarize:
You don't like the range you can get out of any of the Petrol options, TB45, 4.8 or even the Lexus. A heavy vehicle will always have poor petrol consumption
The ZD30 will not give you the necessary reliability. AFAIK, the newer ones are more reliable only thanks to the newer engine management system. Hence it won't work for you anyhow.
Given the items that you have already replaced, the best fit for that is probably the 4.2Diesel. Consumption is not as good as the 3l, but better than any of the petrol options.

Having said al that, I do not regret the Lexus conversion. Yes I had teething problems initially, but all sorted now and I trust my vehicle to go anywhere, anytime.
Also the 4.2D is more tolerant to variant diesels. I.e. no super sensitive injectors like the more modern diesel engines. Much better for overlanding, which is what you need your car for.

In your case, given your needs and what you have done already, find a suitable 4.2D.