Fix 3.0 L TD in 2004 model, or replace engine?

[Peter Connan]

JG do you know what computer is used in these Lexus transplants? This is always of more concern to me than the engine itself, as the mechanicals are always reasonably easy to sort out. In my limited experience (only four transplants to date) the mechanicals are generally easy, but the problems are usually experienced either in the cooling or the electrical systems. Two of my transplants have used computer-controlled engines, and in both cases they have left me stranded at least once due to computer failure. I am not saying that all computers will do this, but I am saying that I don't even want a chance of this happening while crossing a river in Lesotho during a rainstorm? (Ja ek weet ek kan 'n lekker drama queen wees as ek wil) The other two transplants used carbs and points engines, and even they gave me some electrical issues. I beleive that the electrical components one can buy are mostly of far inferior quality than are used in car factories, and I have been unable to find good quality small electrical components, and thus I have become very wary of modifying factory wiring looms.

I am not sure how old this car is, nor do I know the financial position of the owner, but I do know this: If my car's engine blew I would certainly not be able to afford a R65k fix. Nor am I advocating a "partial fix". What I was trying to say is that if it is not necessary to sleeve the block, grind the crank and replace the head, fixing it would certainly be the cheapest option. And then use a good engine management system to force you to stay within the rules?

[JG Shields]

Peter, as far as I know, the computers Attie uses is supplied by Spitronics. I agree with you about the correct balance between mechanicals and electronics. In fact, in my view both have to be done 100%. There should be no room for doubt in any of the work done. This is where experience and reputation of the converter is so important...and not the price.

You force me to expose more of my deeper believes and experience regarding this matter. Here it is.... The cost to overhaul a ZD30 engine properly ranges anything between R35000 and R120000, depending the amount of damage and the workshop you use. I am sorry, but if someone offers me a COMPLETE overhaul for less than R30k on a ZD30, I will be very sceptical. This brings me to the conclusion that R50k - R60k is a realistic overhaul ballpark figure for a ZD30. Now, it does not matter how well you overhaul that engine and how well you manage it while driving it, we all know that those engines carry latent design/constuction flaws in them which has being proven over and over. Therefore, it does not matter how little or how much you spend on an overhaul, the same fate WILL hit you again somewhere down the line...but not much further than 100000km. This is a given you have to budget for in any case. The worst of all is that you do not know WHEN the next grande is likely to explode in front of you. I ask myself why would I be willing to hit my foot against the same rock twice in bright daylight?

One very happy Patrol /Lexus owner fixed his ZD30 before he went the Lexus route...obviously after it exploded. He tried to sell the Patrol with the ZD30 but eventually gave up when he did not get any offers at his "reduced" price. He decided to keep the car and drive it. The trouble did not stop and he converted to Lexus. All of a sudden he had a few offers to buy the car for more than he advertised it with the ZD30.

Yes, a proper Lexus conversion is not cheap, but neither is a proper ZD30 overhaul. That's one important reason why I prefer the straight six petrol engine and that is also a reason why it is a perception to think that a ZD30 (3.0Di) runs cheaper than a petrol Patrol...somewhat besides the point, sorry.

[Pieter du Toit]

Gentleman

As a matter of interest - I can also speak of first hand experience - and factual figures I was quoted.

Schus Nissan Parow quoted me as follows (both quotes are inclusive of everything - incl the taxman - ) This was after the engine was out and opened for inspection.

To do a complete overhaul on my blown ZD30 engine: R84 219-12

To replace my ZD30 with a new engine from the factory: R155 292-33

Remember this was by the agents themselves - and even here I am sure there would have been more costs that they could no foresee with the quote.

That's why I opted for the replacement with the 4.2 Turbo diesel engine - I also wanted more umphf to tow my off road trailor and boat. And my conversion was still a lot cheaper (even though more expensive than originally thought by me and Frans.) But I have been to this day not been looking back for one second - and if I have to do it over again I will most definately go the same route again!!

My

Regards

[Peter Connan]

Gentlemen I stand corrected
Never in my wildest dreams did I think it could cost that much to rebuild an engine.

In that case, throw that thing away. My personal preference would still be for a Nissan engine though, but only if it could be had with it's complete wiring harness and all necessary electronic components. Otherwise, the Lexus route then probably makes sense?

[Tinus lotz]

i just spoke to the guys at jap auto trading and they gave me price for a complete zd30 R19500 and 4.2 normal aspirated at R24OOO can it cost that much to swop ???

[JG Shields]

Tinus, we have to be very carefull with what is offered to us as ZD30 engines. There are various versions of the ZD30 engine. For example. the Patrol, Hardbody and Terrano all use different versions of the ZD30 AND THEY ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. My good friend Andre Odendaal bought an import ZD30 for R20000 3 weeks ago to replace his grenade. He specifically asked for a Patrol engine and they promised him that it is. On closer investigation they found that it is a Terrano engine and that the two engine management systems are not compatible what so ever or at an additional cost of around R20000. He almost had to go via a court process to get his money back. Still the importers argue that it is suitable for the Patrol as well...and it is definately not the case.

In the wake of all the ZD30 Parol engine trouble we discussed on this forum to date, I do not know of any true Patrol 3.0Di engine ever imported to SA, despite many claims for the existance of such engines.

In my view, the only viable Nissan engine replacement for the ZD30 grenades is the 4.2TD. Theoretically it just makes sence. Practically we face some tough challenges thoug namely know-how and experience to do the conversion. It is not an average mechanical job. As far as I am aware, Frans and Pieter are the only two people who have done it successfully to date. Although Pieter is satisfied and the conversion is a success, it was very COSTLY, not to speak about the additional schoolfees he had to pay in terms of frustration, dissapointment etc. I am sure Pieter will agree with me if I say that a realistic conversion tab, excluding engine price, will end up at R50000+. This is if he and Frans factor their labor cost into the calculation. Yes, capable converters, other than Frans, will be around but they will also come at a similar cost. Therefore the cost of a PROPER conversion, excluding the price of the engine, should be more or less the same for all engines. Once you add the engine price to the cost of a proper conversion, I yet want to see a cheaper conversion than a Lexus conversion...backed by the knowledge, experience, parts and peace of mind already available out there.

I want to emphasise again...I do not see the reason why a Nissan badge on an engine should cost R30000 or more. This is where common sence have to come before pride.

[Pieter du Toit]

Tinus

Yep - that figures are correct. I was quoted the same price for a replacement zd30 and I paid R26500-00 for the TD42T that I eventually sourced.

Remember my conversion could have been a lot cheaper if I opted to just take the 4.2 and stick it right back into the engine bay. The engine did come with a start up garuntee. But it was my decision to open up the engine to make 100% sure everything is 100% - but I wanted 100% piece of mind.

I am so confident about my enigne after me and Frans did it over that I am sure my engine will last for the next 500 000km -that's how confident I am. I will most probably outlast the lifetime of the body And adding all those extras in terms of monitoring oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, boost etc etc gives me extra piece of mind and confidence.

Regards

[Pieter du Toit]

In my view, the only viable Nissan engine replacement for the ZD30 grenades is the 4.2TD. Theoretically it just makes sence. Practically we face some tough challenges thoug namely know-how and experience to do the conversion. It is not an average mechanical job. As far as I am aware, Frans and Pieter are the only two people who have done it successfully to date. Although Pieter is satisfied and the conversion is a success, it was very COSTLY, not to speak about the additional schoolfees he had to pay in terms of frustration, dissapointment etc. I am sure Pieter will agree with me if I say that a realistic conversion tab, excluding engine price, will end up at R50000+. This is if he and Frans factor their labor cost into the calculation.

JG,

I concur - vey true what you say here. I am very priviliged that there is a Frans who did ths for me - my labour costs would have been easily 5 times that what I paid him eventually. And he was also there to assist with the after conversion teething problems - so yes you are correct in your statement. Doing it through a reputable workshop is not going to be cheap......unfortunately. I think you yourself can also testify to this with your conversion.

But then there is the option of buying the replacement engine, pray for the best and just sticking it right back into where it belongs. That's staying with a nissan engine of course.........

Regards

[Tinus lotz]

pieter and jg
i agree with you guys but shit why cant he go for a standard 4.2 ????? christo boegman has a 4.2 patrol pick up 2004 model and it goes like a bomb!!!!it takes a while to get there but it cruisers at 120km with 1000l of diesel on the back ? i am no expert on engines but can the diff and gearbox ratios be that different ?
at the end of the day if he needs more power he can fit a turbo later ?
it just bugs me to spend 65000 on a engine fix ?

[JG Shields]

Ok, I reached for my 2 year old file. Below is the exact cost breakdown for a Lexus conversion by, in my view, the no1 Lexus converter in SA. The cost have not changed very much. He quoted Andre Odendaal R65000 to convert his manual gearbox Patrol, using the Nissan gearbox, which he is busy with right now. As Peter always say, " we al have our own set of priorities and preferences". Some of the attached items may seem unnecessary, but this is how my ideal worksheet would look like. I believe that there are not short-cuts in a conversion. Short-cuts ends up in frustration pain and additional cost. From this sheet it is possible to do a fair conversion comparison to most other engine options.

TOTAL COST - Excluding VAT R 60,035.26
Engine R 7,457.00
Timingbelt & tensioner R 2,896.20
Engine service items (belts, tensioners, oils, sparkplugs etc) R 2,000.00
Engine Mountings / Adapter Plates R 550.00
ECU - Engine R 2,250.00
TCM Gearbox (only applicable if Lexus GB is used) R 0.00
Adapter Plate - Bell-housing R 1,080.00
Engineering Works - Bell-housing R 900.00
Air Filter R 1,782.00
Air Filter houses R 486.00
Air Filter Adapter R 202.50
Heater Hoses R 253.00
Radiator Hoses R 572.00
Fuelline Hoses R 236.00
Powersteering Hoses R 650.50
Hoseclamps - Radiator, Heater, Fuelline, Pteering, Airfilter etc. R 318.00
Aircon Hoses R 607.50
Aircon Gas R 270.00
Accel Cable R 365.00
Fuelpumps - Fueltank R 1,450.00
Fuel Filter R 162.00
Plugs, bolts, washers, sleeving, tape, wire etc. R 385.00
Exhaust system R 2,340.00
Courier R 347.75
Vicous, Fan Blade, Coupling & Adapter R 3,974.81
Fan Cowling R 1,500.00
Dyno Tuning R 1,200.00
Cleaning - valet R 650.00
Labour - Conversion R 25,150.00