Reversing up an steep incline!!!

[Stefan]

Hello Stefan

This is not a mechanical issue as there would have been some mechanical noise which is not the case here. This is just giving it gas and not going anywhere

Thanks David,

I'm not saying that this is what is causing it, I'm just highlighting it as a risk :)

[David]

No problem Stefan I have looked up all the error checks in the service manual and will check this weekend if I can find something. My gut feeling is still that the ECU/TCU is sensitive to something and is now sending the wrong command to the gearbox.

[David]

OK - my baby is back with enough power to spin up my driveway!

Yesterday I did the 'AT Judgement-Self Diagnosis' and 'Accelerator Pedal Learning' and 'Throttle valve Learning' procedures from the electronic manual. It did not find anything wrong and this morning the Trol was it's old self

Only problem is that it was already 19 degrees Celsius outside at 6 so I will have to wait for some colder weather to confirm that outside temperature has nothing (or everything!) to do with the 'condition'

I will keep you posted

[Bruin Beer]

David,
I am not at my manual to search and see detail regarding these procedure.
Would it be possible to point us to the section and/or page number?
I think all of us is keeping an eye on this thread.
Thank you.
Bruin Beer.

[Tinus lotz]

Very interesting ......I also found that my trollie battle when reversing back but if I start a little before and then take it at the same speed all cool ????it Is as if the reverse takes a while to kick in properly ?

[David]

OK - here are the procedures as copied from the Electronic Service Manual...


Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning
DESCRIPTION
“Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning” is an operation to learn the fully released position of the
accelerator pedal by monitoring the accelerator pedal position sensor output signal. It must be performed
each time harness connector of accelerator pedal position sensor or ECM is disconnected.
OPERATION PROCEDURE
1. Make sure that accelerator pedal is fully released.
2. Turn ignition switch “ON” and wait at least 2 seconds.
3. Turn ignition switch “OFF” wait at least 10 seconds.
4. Turn ignition switch “ON” and wait at least 2 seconds.
5. Turn ignition switch “OFF” wait at least 10 seconds.

Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning
DESCRIPTION
“Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning” is an operation to learn the fully closed position of the throttle valve
by monitoring the throttle position sensor output signal. It must be performed each time harness connector
of electric throttle control actuator or ECM is disconnected.
OPERATION PROCEDURE
1. Make sure that accelerator pedal is fully released.
2. Turn ignition switch “ON”.
3. Turn ignition switch “OFF” wait at least 10 seconds.
Make sure that throttle valve moves during above 10 seconds by confirming the operating sound.

Idle Air Volume Learning
DESCRIPTION
“Idle Air Volume Learning” is an operation to learn the idle air volume that keeps each engine within the
specific range. It must be performed under any of the following conditions:
+ Each time electric throttle control actuator or ECM is replaced.
+ Idle speed or ignition timing is out of specification.
PREPARATION
Before performing “Idle Air Volume Learning”, make sure that all of the following conditions are satisfied.
Learning will be cancelled if any of the following conditions are missed for even a moment.
+ Battery voltage: More than 12.9V (At idle)
+ Engine coolant temperature: 70 - 95°C (158 - 203°F)
+ PNP switch: ON
+ Electric load switch: OFF
(Air conditioner, headlamp, rear window defogger)
On vehicles equipped with daytime light systems, set lighting switch to the 1st position to light
only small lamps.
+ Steering wheel: Neutral (Straight-ahead position)
+ Vehicle speed: Stopped
+ Transmission: Warmed-up
For models with CONSULT-II, drive vehicle until “FLUID TEMP SE” in “DATA MONITOR” mode of “A/T”
system indicates less than 0.9V.
For A/T models without CONSULT-II, drive vehicle for 10 minutes.

Without CONSULT-II
NOTE:
+ It is better to count the time accurately with a clock.
+ It is impossible to switch the diagnostic mode when an accelerator pedal position sensor circuit
has a malfunction.
1. Perform EC-31, “Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning”.
2. Perform EC-31, “Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning”.
3. Start engine and warm it up to normal operating temperature.
4. Check that all items listed under the topic “PREPARATION” (previously mentioned) are in good order.
5. Turn ignition switch “OFF” and wait at least 10 seconds.
6. Confirm that accelerator pedal is fully released, turn ignition switch “ON” and wait 3 seconds.
7. Repeat the following procedure quickly five times within 5 seconds.
a. Fully depress the accelerator pedal.
b. Fully release the accelerator pedal.
8. Wait 7 seconds, fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it for approx. 20 seconds until the MI stops
blinking and turned ON.
9. Fully release the accelerator pedal within 3 seconds after the MI turned ON.
10. Start engine and let it idle.
11. Wait 20 seconds.
12. Rev up the engine two or three times and make sure that idle speed and ignition timing are within the
specifications.
ITEM SPECIFICATION
Idle speed 675±50 rpm (in “P” or “N” position)
Ignition timing 10±5° BTDC (in “P” or “N” position)
13. If idle speed and ignition timing are not within the specification, “Idle Air Volume Learning” will not be
carried out successfully. In this case, find the cause of the incident by referring to the “Diagnostic Procedure”
below.

1.jpg (69.81 KiB) Viewed 7808 times

DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE
If idle air volume learning cannot be performed successfully, proceed as follows:
1. Check that throttle valve is fully closed.
2. Check PCV valve operation.
3. Check that downstream of throttle valve is free from air leakage.
4. When the above three items check out OK, engine component parts and their installation condition
are questionable. Check and eliminate the cause of the incident.
It is useful to perform EC-108, “TROUBLE DIAGNOSIS — SPECIFICATION VALUE”.
5. If any of the following conditions occur after the engine has started, eliminate the cause of the
incident and perform “Idle air volume learning” all over again:
— Engine stalls.
— Erroneous idle.


A/T SELF-DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE (WITHOUT CONSULT-II)
Description
In the unlikely event of an abnormality in the electrical system, when the ignition switch to “ON” position, the
A/T CHECK indicator lamp lights up for 2 seconds, then flashes for 8 seconds. If there is no abnormality,
when the ignition switch to “ON” position, the indicator lamp lights up for 2 seconds. As a method for locating
the problem position, when the self-diagnostics start signal is input, the memory for the breakdown location
is output and the A/T CHECK indicator lamp flashes to display the problem position.
Diagnostic Procedure
1.CHECK A/T CHECK INDICATOR LAMP
1. Start the engine with selector lever in “P” position. Warm engine to normal operating temperature.
2. Ignition switch to “ON” and “OFF” position at least twice, then leave it in the “OFF” position.
3. Wait 10 seconds.
4. Turn ignition switch to “ON” position.
(Do not start engine.)
5. Does A/T CHECK indicator lamp come on for about 2 seconds?
Yes or No?
Yes >> GO TO 2.
No >> GO TO AT-168, “A/T CHECK Indicator Lamp does not come on”.

2.JUDGEMENT PROCEDURE STEP 1
1. Turn ignition switch to “OFF” position.
2. Push shift lock release button.
3. Move selector lever from “P” to “D” position.
4. Set the closed throttle position switch to “OFF”. (Depressed accelerator pedal at half throttle)
5. Depressed brake pedal. (Brake switch to “ON” position.)
6. Turn ignition switch to “ON” position.
7. Wait 3 seconds.
8. Manual mode switch to “ON” position. (Move the selector lever to “M” position.)
9. Released brake pedal. (Brake switch to “OFF” position.)
10. Manual mode switch to “OFF” position. (Move the selector lever to “D” position.)
11. Depressed brake pedal. (Brake switch to “ON” position.)
12. Released brake pedal. (Brake switch to “OFF” position.)
13. Depress accelerator pedal fully and release it.
>> GO TO 3.

3.CHECK SELF-DIAGNOSIS CODE
Check A/T CHECK indicator lamp.
Refer to AT-74, “Judgement Self-Diagnosis Code”.
If the system does not go into self-diagnostics. Refer to AT-164, “PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION,
MANUAL MODE, BRAKE AND THROTTLE POSITION SWITCH CIRCUIT”.
>> DIAGNOSIS END

Chart.jpg (180.63 KiB) Viewed 7808 times

HOW TO ERASE SELF-DIAGNOSTIC RESULTS (WITHOUT CONSULT-II)
The A/T CHECK indicator lamp is located on the instrument panel.
1. If the ignition switch stays “ON” after repair work, be sure to turn ignition switch “OFF” once. Wait at least
10 seconds and then turn it “ON” (engine stopped) again.
2. Perform self-diagnostic procedure.
(The engine warm-up step can be skipped when performing the diagnosis only to erase
the DTC.)
3. Turn ignition switch to “OFF” position. (The self-diagnostic results will be erased.)

[Bruin Beer]

David,

Man this must have kept you up for a long time.
Thanks a milion for this info.
I will study this.
Bruin Beer

[DawidT]

Thanks Daid Now for me to study also! It is going to take me a looooong time!!!

[Bruin Beer]

David,
I would like to search for this text in the service manual I have but don't recall ever seing this much detail.
Do you know if the electronic manual you are referring to is different from the service manual.
This info is worth gold.
Thanks again.
Bruin Beer

[David]

Hello Bruin Beer

Dit is hierdie een - Supplement III : ESM

esm.jpg (117.24 KiB) Viewed 7772 times