Fix 3.0 L TD in 2004 model, or replace engine?

[Vaughn Ashford]

Hello all,
Alex Roux (Nissan 4x4 club member) is on holiday in Kruger, so I am asking on his behalf.
His Patrol that burnt a hole in # 1 piston, he is looking for comments regards fix or raplace?
He has spoken to Shields(?) who has suggested SAC repair, with requisite sensors, etc, or fit Lexus V8 petrol. Does anyone have other comments, suggestions, advise, etc, regards this problem. Many thanks, in advance.

[Peter Connan]

Vaughn my immediate and relatively inexperienced (with this specific engine) response would be that that decision can only be made once the engine has been dismantled and the damage assessed.

If the damage is limited to the piston, and the rest of the engine is still in fairly good condition, such that all that is needed to re-build is gaskets, bearings, pisons, rings and oil pump it should definately be cheaper to re-build than to replace. It would definately be advisable in this case to fit an engine monitoring system such as the madman system with EGT as minumum but preferably also oil pressure and temperature and water temperature sensors, and then to have somebody who knows the issues involved like SAC to get it all running properly.

However if the block or head is damaged, it may be better to replace. However if he uses the vehicle for trips to out-of-the-way places, I personally would not advise a transplant to a different type or model of engine unless it is very carefully executed by experts with lots of experience doing that particular transplant into that particular car, as there are a whole host of things that can go wrong. The budget for a transplant should also be reckoned at least double the quoted price.

[Herrie]

Tour de Frans replaced Pieter du Toit's 3.0l with an imported 4.2TD after he had the same problem and he is very happy with it.

http://patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1171

[Peter Connan]

Kobus I agree completely, but if you read Pieter's posts you will see that even with an expert like Frans doing the work, the job cost a lot more than he had expected and several months to sort out all the niggles. And virtually every other transplant documented on this forum has somehow been a disaster somewhere along the way.
It therefore remains my contention that as a way to repair a car with a broken engine, a transplant is unlikely to be a financially viable option once all the costs have been revealed. If the intention is to do a transplant to acheive a vehicle with different characteristics than the original, that is a different story, but must still be approached either with lots of caution or with lots of spare cash and patience, and a healthy sense of adventure would not go amiss.

[Grant]

Peter I agree,


Get the engine to a reputable repair center and strip. Assess the damage and identify the cause of the failure. Once this is done a decision can be made on the way fore ward.
Gerhard at SAC diesel has done extensive work on his Hard body 30td. He has fitted Patrol pistons and head. I suggest you get hold of him or Mynhard.


Why would you fit a Toyota engine into a Nissan.

[ricster]

As most know, my 4.2 burnt a hole through the no 2 piston. I was faced with the same predicament. I went for the repair method. I also went the repair myself method. so I can give an indication on what it cost me, keeping in mind that mine is a 6 cylinder 4.2 and not the 4 cylinder 3.0 L.

When my motor blew, I was 550Km from home in Botswana. I think I did a whole load of damage to my block by still driving the "maiden" home..... yes that is one *^%$#& strong motor !!!!.... but I had no choice. I believe that this caused damaged to the cylinder sleeve.

The route I followed was to repair/replace everything.
1) skimmed head and check/reseat valves
2) new precom chambers x 6
3) Valve guides x 6
4) full gasket set
5) changed to Keystone Pistons x 6
6) keystone rings x 6
7) small end bearings x 6
8) big end bearings x 6
9) main bearings x 6
10) check crank shaft for any problems
11) cylinder sleeves x 6
12) block clean and remove and fitting of the 6 new sleeves
13) recon injectors x 6
14) new glow plugs x 6
15) recalibrate diesel pump
16) castrol delo 400 oil ( 3 x 5 litre)
17) Nissan Antifreeze (3 bottles)
18) new set head bolts

19) swearing, screaming, cursing, ( priceless )

The whole thing cost me, a year ago, +/- R 21 000.00
I did have issues with injectors and the diesel pump and that cost me another R 10 000 for CRD to sort out.

Obvoiusly this is with out labour, as I did most of the work myself. The machining was sent out to people I know, and that helped me out with the costs. Frans ( tour de frans) helped me out like you cant believe, he assisted me in ordering the correct parts in Cape Town, that I got couriered up to Jhb, and not to mention a few late night calls to him asking for technical help. (fix a Patrol CT to JHB..... ha ha)

So.... yes I think it can be done cheaper than what I paid, depending on if the block is damaged, as there are only 4 cylinders not 6. But the price is the labour !! I learnt a LOT doing it myself.... I know this motor inside out.... It was fun... even though I swore a lot!!

I also think, open up the motor assess, the damage first, then decide on the next option.

[JG Shields]

I was in this very same position where Alex find himself today. I also went through an investigation process and ended up with a 4.8 transplant into my previously 3.oDi Patrol. I was lucky to get the 4.8 engine, gearbox, looms, and all the other components required to do a transplant and not a conversion. I enjoyed my 4.8 until a breakpipe failure turned my beloved car into a roasted Patrol. In hind sight this is my opinion and experience.

With the knowledge and experience I have today the following would be my options in order of priority if I have to do it again.

1. If a complete 4.8 is available I will do the same transplant.
2. Fit a Lexus 4L V8 into the Patrol.
3. Fix the 3.0Di.

Lets ignore the 4.8 for the rest of the argument, it speaks for itself. Now, if I take my emotional hat of and argue technically correct, the following is my reasons for the Lexus vs 3.0Di.

3.0Di: Let us be honest for once and for all. As much as we love and admire our Patrols, we know in our hearts that the 3.0Di is a questionable engine with a very bad reputation. In my opinion the 3.0Di is the only weak link in the Patrol chain...but the link is realy weak...sorry to be so upfront about it. I believe that the engine can last longer than the current average for the 3.0Di engines out there, but only with the assistance of additional management systems and very good understanding by the driver of how to drive the car not to damage the engine. This is not a spontanious behaviourable request from the average driver and I believe that only a few drivers will realy follow the rules because they love their 3.0Di Patrol, therefore I doubt wether it will better the 3.0Di's reputation. Personally I do not believe in a partial overhaul. The engine is too complex and delicate not to do a complete overhaul, and we all know the costs involved. I could not re-build confidence in the 3.0Di engine to have mine fixed. I did not want to fix and sell it either. By doing so I would only have passed on my problems to the next owner who would seek for help on this same forum anyway. Every time I considered the thought, the little invisible bugger with the "reliability consious" hammer knocked me at the back of my head.

4L V8 Lexus: I had my engine ordered when the 4.8 engine was offered to me. The only reason I went for the 4.8 was because it was Nissan. At the end the 4.8 transplant did cost me about R40000 more than the Lexus would have. What are the Lexus engine's positive characteristics?

> It is cheap to purchase. In fact the engine is cheaper than a Patrol alternator.
> They are available in big numbers which will see that even parts will be easy to buy.
> It is a relative simple, no-nonsence engine, easy to understand and to maintain.
> It is powerfull, so much so that it competes with the 4.8, if not better.
> It's fuel consumption is surprisingly good an substantially better than the straigh six Nissan and Toyota engines. In fact, a well tuned Lexus engine compares well with the 3.0Di consumption.
> They are very reliable with a very good reputation.
> Important: The know-how of the Lexus conversion is fast becoming a redily available item! It is not the once-off conversion where only the converter knows what he did at a particular point and where you will be stuck if that person is not around for whatever reason.

What is negative about the Lexus?: The badge on the top cover does not say Nissan.

Conversion - technical: I agree with what has being said on this thread about the converter. Do not take the first conversion offer on the market. I will use Attie van Biljon who also did my 4.8 transplant. He specialises in Lexus conversions and his reputation is beyond any doubt for many years. He have done quite a few Patrol and Safari bakkies so far and his customers can be contacted any time. He even recall them for upgrades on certain aspects as he learn more about the Patrol. They are over the moon of joy with their cars. Do not be surprised if we see more Lexus V8 engines in Patrols within 5 years that 3.0Di engines. Attie is busy with a Patrol 3.0Di to Lexus right now as we speak.

Cost: The complete conversion will end up around R65000, of which the engine will be approximately R7500. Analise the rest of the bill and you will find out why it is worth the money.

The Patrol is an awsome vehicle...with one weak link namely the 3.0Di engine. I moved on beyond the unhealthy rivalry barrier between Nissan and Toyota since I own a Cruiser. Therefore, I will rather see a healthy hybrid Patrol with a Lexus engine than no Patrol. If it is a technical and economical sound option, why not?

[ricster]

.... I think you summed it up perfectly !!!

It is a tough call..... but it is proving to be popular to convert to the Lexus.... and not only with Patrols !!!

[Herrie]

The L28 from the Safari/Skyline with a VanderLinde conversion gives you 150kw, maybe that is a better and cheaper option

[JG Shields]

Kobus, I hear what you say but....

I saw the dyno test result of a Safari bakkie which Attie completed with a Lexus engine and auto box....output was 216kw on the wheels. If I put that plus the other advantages which I mentioned on a scale in comparison to any other conversion, the result speaks for itself in my mind. I cannot see why a L28 conversion will be cheaper...IF...the same technology and care is applied in both conversions. Most of all, soon there will be more Lexus engines running on our roads than many other known engine models. It just has to be a comforting factor from a spare-part and technical knowledge availability perspective.

I understand the Nissan vs Toyota psychological barrier. I was caught up there myself. However, somewhere logic and common sence has to win the battle over subjective emotions.