TD42 OWNERS QUESTION

[Ross]

Hi Pieter,

Glad to hear that you`re making progress. Look forward to hearing the results of the road testing.....I`m holding thumbs for you that you get the results that you are after

Have a good weekend!

Ross

[tour de frans]

J G
Die 4.2 het n warm word probleem,Punt.Ek se nie die engine sleg nie,maar hy word warm as hy werk.Turbo of nie.Die Ausies ry hom so.En ja my engine het gebreek met lae egt's.Ek het net nie gesien die hitte naald was al in die rooi nie.So ek het hom stukkend gery.Ek se ook, Ek Frans, Kan nie die 4.2 se warm word probleem uitsorteer nie,Al lyk die of die engine n probleem het,ek hoop iemand kan dit reg maak en dit met ons deel.

n Olie koeler werk.Maak nie saak in wat nie, dit werk.Al is daar geen lugvloei nie,hy koel af.Dit is olie wat uit die engine uitkom,dit vloei deur n voorwerp en gaan terug engine toe.So hy verloor van sy hitte om daai ompad te loop.Met n cooler help dit natuurlik baie meer.Meeste resies karre se water hitte probleem word reggemaak met n olie verkoeler.Die olie is die enigste middel wat direk met die engine se onderdele kontak maak,en nie water nie.
Daar is baie engins wat net olie verkoeling gebruik en het nie water nie.
Dis goed om olie se temp reg te hou,dit help nie net met water verkoel nie,die olie leef ook langer en die smeering bly ook langer goed.

Ek help Pieter met sy kar,ek probeer als om die kar koel te hou.Ek hoop dit werk en Pieter kan met n geruste hart ry.
Groete
Frans

[Pieter du Toit]

Good day Gents,

Herewith some feedback.......but I am not completely done with my exercise and "experiment" with everything. But it will take another week or so to get everything completely done.

BUT........In a nutshell......

The oil cooler in itself is making a HUGE HUGE difference in my running temperatures!! I am honestly flabagasted at the difference - there is beyond doubt a huge improvement in everything. I unfortunately got underway a bit late on Friday and the temperature already dropped down to 20 degrees by the time I hit Sir Lowry's Pass - but we were 6 adults (and an African Grey ) in the car with the trailor heavily loaded in tow. So I was not driving in that "extravangant heat" that we are after to see what the performance is like. Only when I reached the very top of Sir Lowry's pass did the Patrol's heat gauge reach the exact half way mark - so yes it was starting to climb a bit again. But not nearly as bad as in the past. Previoulsy I was driving with just the Patrol with 5 adults in it (flatfoot) on a rainy day in about 15 degrees and I could not even make it half way up Sir Lowry's Pass without the heat gauge starting to climb - and it reached the almost 3/4 way by the time I hit the top.

Unfortunately the weather did not play along for the remainder of the weekend and I was unable to conduct any further tests....... Saturday was very cool on that side of the mountain and Sat night it started raining and did so for the remainder of Sunday.

The one thing I did notice going up on Friday was that the water temp did start to rise 3/4 of the way up (going over 115 degrees - but the oil temp was still fine at about 108 degrees) - and I think this is here where the next problem lies - insufficient cooling. As the water got hotter the oil temp inevitably also started to rise - but still not to alarming levels. This can be one of two things - or both even. Too little water in the total system or too little airflow through the radiator - or both. But I am working on that one and have a couple of cards up my sleeve (which I need to reason out with Frans yet).

All in all I am very satisfied with the progress made thus far and think in my honest opinion the money spent on the oil cooler was well worth it - in fact I would have liked to perhaps put in a slightly bigger cooler but am very restricted with space. Then on the other hand too much cooling will also not be good.

Normal flat road / town driving sees my coolant temp at 90 - 95 degrees and oil temp at 85 - 90 degrees - they two do seem to run very close to each other. Unfortunately I did not have an oil temp sensor before the oil cooler conversion so I would not know what the oil temps were like before.

In the meantime CT starting is to "heat up" and it seems that we might be in for a hot hot weekend.........so we will see what happens the when further experiments are done. Me and Frans will win this "running hot" problem of the 4.2's - or at least get very close to it and improve on it. I will post more details of what exactly I have been doing at a later stage - when I am convinced my suspicions is correct.

Unfortunately only time will tell.........

[Peter Connan]

Pieter, Frans, I stand humbly corrected.

Pieter can you add some detail WRT the installation:
1) Where is the oil cooler mounted?
2) How is it connected to the engine?
3) Where are you measuring oil temperature?
5) Did you use rubber hoses, or braided steel?
4) What did it all cost?

As you have probably noticed I also have temperature problems, but there is one big difference: Your engine is known for this, while mine seems to be unique. In other words there is something wrong in my car, but I really don't know where to look anymore. I have replaced the thermostat, checked the waterpump, had the radiator cleaned, replaced the exhaust (with a free-flow), replaced the fan with dual electric fans etc. and now I am stuck.

Apparently there was radiator stop leak in my radiator, and some people I have consulted believe that this may have partially blocked some of the passages in the engine, but nobody I have spoken to has any idea of how to remove this stuff except by stripping and rebuilding the motor, and this is a job I cannot currently afford, does anybody know of any other method?

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Peter,

Sjoe - you're not shy with the questions!!!

I will take some photographs of everything at a later stage and post it - but it is very awkward positions and I am not sure if photographs will really give you the picture. Anycase....

Question 1. My oil cooler is mounted at the rear of my front bumper below the winch at the bottom - on top of a bash "plate" I had fitted as well to force airflow through the cooler and not to let it pass underneath the cooler or car. It is well protected and there is 3 holes cut in the bumper where the oil cooler sits.

Question 2. It is connected to the engine at the oil filter with a sandwich adapter - it is a special adapter that you buy that fits onto your engine block where your oil filter sits and then the oil filter screws back onto the sandwich adapter.

Question 3. I am measuring the oil pressure and oil temperature at the sandwich adapter. It comes standard with 2 threaded holes on the sides that are blanked off - it is made for the VDO type temp and pressure senders. I had to buy an additional VDO pressure gauge as the Madman can only do one pressure reading and I am already measuring boost. In hind sight I would have preffered to have this the other way around. The oil temperature is incorporated with the Madman monitor. (I will post pics later).

Question 4. Cost ????? Do I ask you how many times a week you have sex just kidding!!!! The oil cooler (25 row) was R1700 with postage and packaging because I ordered it from JHB, the sandwich adapter was R450-00, the VDO pressure gauge, VDO pressure sender unit and the oil temperature unit was R1100 and the piping (roughly estimated at 4 metres) was R1500 - but they did the fitment as well because that way I could hold them responsible for any leaks - which did happen at the first start up. And then it took another 3,5 litres of oil (I use Delo 400 which is quite expensive). All in all it was just under R5000.

Question 5. I used the braided steel hoses - again more expensive but much more durable than rubber hoses.

As for your statement on your "overheating" problem - I am not a fundi but cant see how else you are going to get anything out of your internal water channels if they are blocked with stop leak in anyway apart form opening your engine. But it should not be too expensive if you are able to do it yourself - at the most you will need some replacement gaskets and new oil - that is if that is the only problem.

Hope I have answered all your questions - I will sure still post some pics at a later stage.

Regards

[Peter Connan]

Thanks Pieter

My momma taught me never to open an engine without replacing the oil pump, and anyway my compression is a bit low and on the dyno the other day I noticed a bit of white smoke on lift-off. In other words, if I open it up, I am going to have to do a proper job of it.

Cheers
Peter

[Kagiso II]

Pieter -Oompie ook arme stuiwer inni beursie gooi [ oooohhh, waa is daai Afrikaans onni nou...]

AS jy die poelie grootte verander om sodoende die deurvloei van die water te verhoog sal dit logies volg dat die druk in die waterkanale met net soveel verhoog. Dit laat my skrikkerig want dan kan 'n "welsh plug" uitspring - en die gevolglike skade sal 'n ander enjin wees. Dink ek?
My raad sou dus wees - maak net die verkoeler en kanale skoon met die gewone "radiator cleaner" [bly WEG van Wynns] kies WM Penn of Castrol of een van daai beter kwaliteit produkte. Jy gooi dit by die verkoelerwater, ry so 100Km normaal, maak dan al die proppies onder langs oop [die waterpyp en die dreineerprop ] laat al die water uitloop. Haal die termostaat uit [toets hom sommer met warm water en kyk op watter C maak hy oop] Laat luier die enjin en druk 'n tuinslang bo by die vullerprop in [natuurlik is die tuinslang gekoppel en die kraan oopgedraai ]

Nou laat loop jy water totdat dit silwerskoonblink onder uitkom. Maak nou weer al die krane toe, sit die dreineer proppie terug, maak weer al die waterpype behoorlik vas. Gooi 100 suiwer "Anti freeze" in jou verkoeler [net so 3 liter] an laat luier weer die enjin tot hy goed warm is. Dreineer daai 'anti freeze' - (ek weet dis duur, sorri). Laat die enjin behoorlik afkoel.
Maak die stelsel vol met 70% "anti freeze" - moenie goedkoopste kies nie - lees die spesifikasies en kry die beste.
Nou kan jy die termostaat terugsit, en 'n NUWE verkoelerprop.
Laat weet my of dit werk , want ek wil dit met Lobo doen as dit werk'
[J G .. wat dink jy van my Taalgebruik???]

[Pieter du Toit]

Oom Mac

Ek het nou lekker gelag vir jou post - mar nou moet ek ook eers stir!!!

Jy gee so n duidelike detail beskrywing van alles wat geoen moet word - en dan eindig jy af met "laat weet my as dit werk - ek wil dit met Lobo ook doen as dit werk"

Nou vra ek myself af - hoe goed is die raad wat oom gee as jy dit dan nou nog nie self getoets het of dit werk nie

Sover hou alles na die verandering van die waterpomp pulley - maar Riaan Kordier van Bosch Auto Services (n man van by die 50+ en sy lewe lank al n mechanic) wat Mufasa diens het my ook vertel hul het dit gedoen met resies karre sonder enige nagevolge of gevaar. Dan moet ek darem ook by se daai pulley is minimaal aangepas - slegs om die pomp bietjie vinniger te laat draai. Dis seker maar relatief gesproke ook tov wat is minimaal en wat is bietjie - Frans is meer clued up met dit en het die "specs" gegee vir die engineer shop van hoeveel kleiner die omtrek van die pulley moes wees. Gelukkig monitor ek alles - coolant level ook - so sou n welsh plug uitdruk sal die coolant level sensor se alarm afgaan lank voor daar skade aan die engin sal wees - ek glo. Maar dat jy dan n probleem sal he is so.

Mooi loop en groete

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Gents

I was able to conduct a second rund of tests today - with great success.

Today was a nice 32 degrees in CT - and at 14h00 I decided to flee the office and grab the Patrol with the trailer in tow to Sir Lowry's Pass again. I needed to make sure about how Mufasa will perform in the heat. To further the tests I also loosened the rear two nuts on my bonnet arms - in other words the bonnet lifted and made it looked like it was spaced. It protruded about 5 cm + into the air at the windscreen side. The idea was to "create" a vacuum system that will suck out air from under the bonnet - because these 4.2's generate an amount of heat under that bonnet that is just absolutely horrific. So gese so gedaan.

I drove from my house with the pretruding bonnet - all the way up Sir Lowry's pass to the top. Gettng there I recorded all the maximum readings from my Madman monitor, which was as follows:

EGT's: 672
Boost: 0.8
Oil temp: 109
Coolant temp: 109

Patrol's heat gauge was litterally a mm or 2 past the half mark.

Then I went all the way down again and stopped at the garage at the bottom and re-inserted the rear bolts and closed the bonnet. Clear the maximum recordings, went up again - trying to handle the same speed and gear as with the previous run all the way to the top - and took the readings again:

EGT's: 695
Boost: 0.8
Oil Temp: 109
Cooant temp: 116

At this test the heat gauge needle was seriously starting to lean towards the 3/4 mark on the gauge. The EGT's and coolant temp's were higher - and although 7 degrees does not sound like much I think it is huge for an engine that is already working hard and constantly sitting around 105 when working hard.

I have thus concluded (in my opinion) that a huge amount of heat is generated under the bonnet that has got nowhere to escape - and is just sitting there pushing up the overall engine temperature. Therefore my Patrol will be gettng a bonnet modification similar to what the airvent were on the 2.0l Opel Boss Kadett's and the 2.0L Gsi Monza's hd on there bonnets. Those vents worked well at getting rid of unneccessary heat that is being extracted - thus allowing the engine to run cooler.

So Burno - hold ready the cutting torch - I am looking for proper air vents to install on the bonnet - decent and effective without making it look like a Belville Ferrari!!!

Here after one more other mod to follow (very very extreme and out of the ordinary - but will make a huge difference) - and then I will have everything under control. More on this later!!!

Regards

[Gerrit Loubser]

Pieter, the bonnet trick probably also increases air flow through the radiator quite significantly. Maybe that is a clue to the root cause of the issue?

I doubt whether those little Kadett air vents will be as effective as creating a gap all along the trailing edge of the bonnet, though.