TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by Peter Connan »

I suspect you have already considered this, but if you do still intend to turbo it later, it may be worth while speccing the ECU setup for that already.

While the TB42 and 45 do have pretty low compression ratios, the design of the combustion chamber is not well suited to bigh compression ratios, and in fact even on a NA setup one has to run fairly low advance to prevent pre-ignition.

I don't know what the guys who put turbos on do to deal with that. I am sure Frans Fourie will be able to advise on that as well.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by jakeslouw »

Peter Connan wrote: 14 Apr 2023 12:36 I suspect you have already considered this, but if you do still intend to turbo it later, it may be worth while speccing the ECU setup for that already.

While the TB42 and 45 do have pretty low compression ratios, the design of the combustion chamber is not well suited to bigh compression ratios, and in fact even on a NA setup one has to run fairly low advance to prevent pre-ignition.

I don't know what the guys who put turbos on do to deal with that. I am sure Frans Fourie will be able to advise on that as well.
Correct. You'd need an ECU that can do spark advance and retard, as well as increased fuel pump flow rates for the injectors and advanced injection timing. I'd say something that can handle at least one O2 sensor, preferably 2 for a close loop system. Something like the Spitronics Mercury.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

Alex Roux wrote: 14 Apr 2023 09:54
jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 15:57
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
I am not convinced.
The Y60 / Y61 chassis was not designed for V8s. both in terms of width and the routing of the pipes to the back.
Yes, it can be done, but requires much more work than what I call a "native" conversion, i.e. putting a Nissan inline-6 engine inside a Y60/61 chassis. It fits and potential complications are much less (not least of all servicing your starter motor on a narrow chassis). Foreign conversion also fetch lower resale values. Purely as a toy, yes, but not as a day-to-day or touring vehicle. And even then, you can get a LOT of power out of turbo-ing the TB series engines. That option remains once you go fuel injected.

I agree here, I think because of the way they were designed for in-line 6cylinders, they just work well and fit.
Definitely agree with the resale value as well. Keeping it all Nissan is definitely a plus, even more so that it's the right engine that came in the car.
I definitely will be going the turbo route down the line, excited!
The car will be an all rounder, so not a pure toy.

jakeslouw wrote: 14 Apr 2023 11:52
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 21:37 R100K minimum for a decent V8 conversion vs the R12k I'm spending on the EFI, I don't think its a fair comparison. :thumbup:
R12k is acceptable. I'd then consider what Alex said and go for a turbo. The TB42 CR is 8.3:1 as far as I know, which implies a fair amount of boost can be added before you start reaching the 10:1 boundary. The issue then becomes adequate fuel delivery at boost, which implies bigger injectors and a better ECU which understands inlet air pressure and air flow.

Yeah I'm happy with that price, especially considering the alternatives.
Like mentioned I will be going turbo at some point.
I does have a nice low compression ratio, I don't think it needs to be dropped further, some sites say 8.3:1, to 8.5:1, not sure where the variances come in though for 2 different figures. I also wouldn't want the CR any lower for crawling performance off-road etc Would be nice for it to run like a normal TB off idle then gain power as the turbo spool, would definitely like something linear and fast spooling. People say the max safe boost pressure on a stock head and bottom end is around 10-12psi without problems.

Most Auzzies recommend new OEM MLS head gasket, new head studs, and valve springs, even for mild applications.
I definitely would do a mild setup but that being said it should still provide good power around the 200FWKW/500NM range, which is like the mentioned V8 territory.

Peter Connan wrote: 14 Apr 2023 12:36 I suspect you have already considered this, but if you do still intend to turbo it later, it may be worth while speccing the ECU setup for that already.

While the TB42 and 45 do have pretty low compression ratios, the design of the combustion chamber is not well suited to bigh compression ratios, and in fact even on a NA setup one has to run fairly low advance to prevent pre-ignition.

I don't know what the guys who put turbos on do to deal with that. I am sure Frans Fourie will be able to advise on that as well.

I have used the local stand alone ECU's in the past, Spitronics and Diktator, the auzzies love their Haltech systems, and they are nice with Plug & Play looms, but expensive, but on the other hand, not something I want to cheap out on. Also get the ECU modified with a Nistune board is an option.
I will definitely keep it in mind, and am thinking about it, but will likely get the setup running on the OEM ECU and take it from there. Also interested to compare the OEM EFI vs Carb.
In regards to the timing, I would want everything to be as conservative and safe as possible, I want reliability more than massive figures.

jakeslouw wrote: 14 Apr 2023 12:45
Peter Connan wrote: 14 Apr 2023 12:36 I suspect you have already considered this, but if you do still intend to turbo it later, it may be worth while speccing the ECU setup for that already.

While the TB42 and 45 do have pretty low compression ratios, the design of the combustion chamber is not well suited to bigh compression ratios, and in fact even on a NA setup one has to run fairly low advance to prevent pre-ignition.

I don't know what the guys who put turbos on do to deal with that. I am sure Frans Fourie will be able to advise on that as well.
Correct. You'd need an ECU that can do spark advance and retard, as well as increased fuel pump flow rates for the injectors and advanced injection timing. I'd say something that can handle at least one O2 sensor, preferably 2 for a close loop system. Something like the Spitronics Mercury.
I would want a wide band sensor, at least 1, and would be getting a 340L/H fuel pump and bigger injectors when Turbo'ing, the stock injectors reach their max duty cycle at like 0.3-4 bar boost.

My main thought at the moment is do I want to swap the entire new "unknown" engine into my car, or transfer over the EFI components to my already "healthy" carb TB42..
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by bogeyman »

I replaced a TB42e in my Gq with a TB45e.
As far as I know the cam in the TB42e is slightly different to the carb model.
As Peter will confirm , the gq engine bay and adequate cooling cannot be mentioned in the same sentence.
Turbo conversions will add a lot of extra heat and you will need to plan well to get reliability , especially when doing slow uphill trails on hot days.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

bogeyman wrote: 18 Apr 2023 11:57 I replaced a TB42e in my Gq with a TB45e.
As far as I know the cam in the TB42e is slightly different to the carb model.
As Peter will confirm , the gq engine bay and adequate cooling cannot be mentioned in the same sentence.
Turbo conversions will add a lot of extra heat and you will need to plan well to get reliability , especially when doing slow uphill trails on hot days.
How are you finding the TB45E compared to your TB42E? Fuel usage, performance? How was the swap with the wiring etc?

Thanks for your insights. I agree.
I already want to add some electric fans to assist cooling, as even NA my temps can rise in certain off-road instances. A bigger surface area and thicker radiator could also be a good idea.
I will look into the Cam differences, I haven't heard this before, so that could be interesting to find out.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by Peter Connan »

I don't think thicker radiators help. They have more water capacity but restrict air flow more, and air flow management is the issue with the GQ.

I had a thicker custom radiator. When it failed I replaced it with a brand new Nissan radiator. It probably reduced temps by about 10 degrees.

My stainless steel high-flow grille also helped.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

Peter Connan wrote: 19 Apr 2023 19:56 I don't think thicker radiators help. They have more water capacity but restrict air flow more, and air flow management is the issue with the GQ.

I had a thicker custom radiator. When it failed I replaced it with a brand new Nissan radiator. It probably reduced temps by about 10 degrees.

My stainless steel high-flow grille also helped.
I was also thinking that may be the case going thicker.
Are the OEM Nissan radiators still available? Also, are they full metal, no plastic end tanks or anything?
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by Peter Connan »

They are available, but they are normal construction:Aluminium core with plastic tanks.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by bogeyman »

( How are you finding the TB45E compared to your TB42E? Fuel usage, performance? How was the swap with the wiring etc? )

The performance was slightly better , but my 4.5 is not tuned for all the available power in favor of reliability and running slightly cooler.
I get an average of 6km/l. It still has the old 3 speed auto with a very long overdrive. 160km/h at 2600rpm.

Used the old 4.2 management and got it working well with a bit of tweaking. It has done about 200k km like this with very little problems.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

bogeyman wrote: 02 May 2023 17:05 ( How are you finding the TB45E compared to your TB42E? Fuel usage, performance? How was the swap with the wiring etc? )

The performance was slightly better , but my 4.5 is not tuned for all the available power in favor of reliability and running slightly cooler.
I get an average of 6km/l. It still has the old 3 speed auto with a very long overdrive. 160km/h at 2600rpm.

Used the old 4.2 management and got it working well with a bit of tweaking. It has done about 200k km like this with very little problems.
Thanks for the info,
6KM/L seems like great consumption, what size tires are you running?

Should be picking up the engine next week, super excited
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