Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
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Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Hello everyone
Slowly preping the patrol for a trip through Bots in Novemeber and I have a few questions regarding my available recovery points.
Now I have read various threads on here already about the standard nissan recovery points that come with the patrol from factory and it seems like these are safe to do a snatch recovery from? So:
Question 1: It seems this the same factory hook that people are talking about, are the factory bolts strong enough or should I replace with HT steel and if so what rating? I see that it's also reccomend to buy another one from nissan for the other side and use both with a bridle if doing a Snatch recovery?
Question 2: The recovery points on the bull bar are then only recommended for winching and not snatch recoveries? They also seem to be bolted directly to the chassis in 2 places as seen in the pics below so this makes me wonder if they might be good options?
Ok then onto options at the rear...
Option 1: The hitch receiver on the rear bar. It seems like its only part of the bar and not actually connected to the chassis itself. The rear bar though is secured in the middle to the chassis via 4 bolts just above the hitch receiver as shown in one of the pics below. What are your thoughts ?
Option 2: Also aimed more at winching? There are 2 recovery rings on either side of the rear bar. They are also part of the bar but directly behind each one is where the rear bar is attached the the chassis. Does anyone or has anyone ever used these to do a snatch recovery before ?
All the Aussie forums seem to say to never do snatch recoveries off the bull bars.... what do you guys think are the best options?
Many thanks
Slowly preping the patrol for a trip through Bots in Novemeber and I have a few questions regarding my available recovery points.
Now I have read various threads on here already about the standard nissan recovery points that come with the patrol from factory and it seems like these are safe to do a snatch recovery from? So:
Question 1: It seems this the same factory hook that people are talking about, are the factory bolts strong enough or should I replace with HT steel and if so what rating? I see that it's also reccomend to buy another one from nissan for the other side and use both with a bridle if doing a Snatch recovery?
Question 2: The recovery points on the bull bar are then only recommended for winching and not snatch recoveries? They also seem to be bolted directly to the chassis in 2 places as seen in the pics below so this makes me wonder if they might be good options?
Ok then onto options at the rear...
Option 1: The hitch receiver on the rear bar. It seems like its only part of the bar and not actually connected to the chassis itself. The rear bar though is secured in the middle to the chassis via 4 bolts just above the hitch receiver as shown in one of the pics below. What are your thoughts ?
Option 2: Also aimed more at winching? There are 2 recovery rings on either side of the rear bar. They are also part of the bar but directly behind each one is where the rear bar is attached the the chassis. Does anyone or has anyone ever used these to do a snatch recovery before ?
All the Aussie forums seem to say to never do snatch recoveries off the bull bars.... what do you guys think are the best options?
Many thanks
When in doubt throttle out !
4.8 GRX Patrol (sold)
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Phew....this is a tricky one.... So firstly, to cover myself, this is my opinion only......
Secondly, any point on the vehicle for recovery is only as strong as the weakest point.
The front:
The front driver side has a good anchor point where the factory hook is. It looks like you have a Peter Connan recovery hook plate on the drivers side, that is then bolted right through the chassis member. My opinion is that, that is the only point that you should a snatch from (this should be if you need to be recovered as doing a snatch in reverse is not a good idea either). The passenger side if you have a Peter Connan recovery plate fitted there should ONLY be used for a lanyard or for a straight inline tow and NEVER at any angle. (All snatch recoveries should always be done in a straight line to the vehicle).
The bolts that are holding the driver side recovery plate on I think should NOT be high tensile bolts, but I'm sure Peter will correct me if I'm wrong, and they go right through the chassis member, BUT the passenger side are only fixed onto the chassis member with rivnuts on one side or edge of the chassis member and are nowhere near strong enough to handle a snatch recovery purely due to the chassis design not having a support tube that the bolt would go through.
The Rear:
I have done a few snatch recoveries from the pin on the tow hitch (I have the pin and ball type). Here again this whole setup is only as strong as the weakest point or bolt. Looking at your setup the bumper is fixed to the chassis with (looks like) 2 bolts on each side ( but might be 4 as I see 2 others 90 deg to the 2 on the underside) . The tow hitch is also bolted to the towbar framework. I do NOT trust welding as the heating (in my opinion) alters the steel with the heating up etc, and how thick is the steel that that recovery loop is welded to and how secure is it? This is why ( in my opinion ) I would use the pin on the tow hitch ( NOT THE BALL .... EVER !!!), as the bolts securing the framework I think will be stronger than any welded part. Those loops on the sides of the bumper, I'd only use for a lanyard or possibly for a light tow.
Secondly, any point on the vehicle for recovery is only as strong as the weakest point.
The front:
The front driver side has a good anchor point where the factory hook is. It looks like you have a Peter Connan recovery hook plate on the drivers side, that is then bolted right through the chassis member. My opinion is that, that is the only point that you should a snatch from (this should be if you need to be recovered as doing a snatch in reverse is not a good idea either). The passenger side if you have a Peter Connan recovery plate fitted there should ONLY be used for a lanyard or for a straight inline tow and NEVER at any angle. (All snatch recoveries should always be done in a straight line to the vehicle).
The bolts that are holding the driver side recovery plate on I think should NOT be high tensile bolts, but I'm sure Peter will correct me if I'm wrong, and they go right through the chassis member, BUT the passenger side are only fixed onto the chassis member with rivnuts on one side or edge of the chassis member and are nowhere near strong enough to handle a snatch recovery purely due to the chassis design not having a support tube that the bolt would go through.
The Rear:
I have done a few snatch recoveries from the pin on the tow hitch (I have the pin and ball type). Here again this whole setup is only as strong as the weakest point or bolt. Looking at your setup the bumper is fixed to the chassis with (looks like) 2 bolts on each side ( but might be 4 as I see 2 others 90 deg to the 2 on the underside) . The tow hitch is also bolted to the towbar framework. I do NOT trust welding as the heating (in my opinion) alters the steel with the heating up etc, and how thick is the steel that that recovery loop is welded to and how secure is it? This is why ( in my opinion ) I would use the pin on the tow hitch ( NOT THE BALL .... EVER !!!), as the bolts securing the framework I think will be stronger than any welded part. Those loops on the sides of the bumper, I'd only use for a lanyard or possibly for a light tow.
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
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Cedric
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Thanks for the insight Cedric I'm not too sure that I have one of Peter's recovery plates on the drivers side but I look forward to hearing his opinions. Adjacent to the factory hook is what looks like a tie down point which also forms part of the front drivers side body mount bracket (obviously no good for anything but a tie down point). Then in front of both of these is the front bar loop of which there is also one on the passenger side. These have been bolted both to the bar and to the chassis HOWEVER, On further inspection it seems that while these two recovery loops are "technically" bolted to the chassis they are only bolted to 2 SMALL BRACKETS which are welded to the chassis rather than actually going through the chassis itself. See example below.
This makes me feel that one should not trust these for a snatch recovery unless it's just a light tug... I also don't know what kind of bolts have been used, maybe it's worth changing them out for peace of mind? I don't actually know how strong brackets like that are...
The passenger side doesn't have a factory hook but there is place for it as far as I can see.
As for the rear I think it's worth purchasing a rated recovery hitch receiver then and rather use that for recoveries in conjunction with a lot of digging and preparation before attempting the snatch....
This makes me feel that one should not trust these for a snatch recovery unless it's just a light tug... I also don't know what kind of bolts have been used, maybe it's worth changing them out for peace of mind? I don't actually know how strong brackets like that are...
The passenger side doesn't have a factory hook but there is place for it as far as I can see.
As for the rear I think it's worth purchasing a rated recovery hitch receiver then and rather use that for recoveries in conjunction with a lot of digging and preparation before attempting the snatch....
When in doubt throttle out !
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Somehow your photos don't load properly on my hardware. They have big black bands and I can only see bits.
The factory front point is strong, and the factory bolts are correctly rated too.
You can get a second one if you like, but to be honest I have gone off the idea of a bridle a little bit, unless you have a relatively long one (so that the line of pull on each line is relatively straight). Instead I prefer to use just a safety lanyard. But a second one will make an ideal attachment point for a lanyard or a bridle. Bolts are M14 fine thread (M14 x 1.5) and should be grade 8.8.
The other points are not mine. If they are bolted through all 3 holes with HT bolts (again grade 8.8), they should be sufficient for a lanyard or a normal tow. I reckon.a winch can apply almost as much force as a snatch.
As for the back, I think the hitch you link to or a ball-and-pin hitch should work on your bar. Just make sure all the bolts are HT.
If those recovery loops on the bar go through the bar, they could potentially be super strong, but it's hard to see.
The factory front point is strong, and the factory bolts are correctly rated too.
You can get a second one if you like, but to be honest I have gone off the idea of a bridle a little bit, unless you have a relatively long one (so that the line of pull on each line is relatively straight). Instead I prefer to use just a safety lanyard. But a second one will make an ideal attachment point for a lanyard or a bridle. Bolts are M14 fine thread (M14 x 1.5) and should be grade 8.8.
The other points are not mine. If they are bolted through all 3 holes with HT bolts (again grade 8.8), they should be sufficient for a lanyard or a normal tow. I reckon.a winch can apply almost as much force as a snatch.
As for the back, I think the hitch you link to or a ball-and-pin hitch should work on your bar. Just make sure all the bolts are HT.
If those recovery loops on the bar go through the bar, they could potentially be super strong, but it's hard to see.
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Oops.... damn...yes I meant to say lanyard and not bridle on my post..... I'll correct it.....
Regards
Cedric
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
Thank you for the advice Peter & Cedric
I think I will get a second factory hook for the passenger side that I can use for a lanyard like you say. As for the rear I will go through and check that the bolts are HT and correctly rated just for piece of mind and maybe purchase a rated recovery hitch receiver and shackle to add to the kit. I will also try to see if the recovery loops on the rear bar do actually go all the way through but I dont think so.
Just got to try not ever get too stuck Haha I get the chills around winch cables and snatch straps
I think I will get a second factory hook for the passenger side that I can use for a lanyard like you say. As for the rear I will go through and check that the bolts are HT and correctly rated just for piece of mind and maybe purchase a rated recovery hitch receiver and shackle to add to the kit. I will also try to see if the recovery loops on the rear bar do actually go all the way through but I dont think so.
Just got to try not ever get too stuck Haha I get the chills around winch cables and snatch straps
When in doubt throttle out !
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
I guess one should not say this too loudly, but remember that the guy with the weakest recovery points is the one who walks away from the failure.
Just make sure that the guy recovering you also has decent hardware...
Just make sure that the guy recovering you also has decent hardware...
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
I always feel that a snatch type of recovery should be your last resort. I'm not a big fan of those kinetic ropes. That's just my opinion.
I got a second recovery hook from Dawid Volschenk. They both fit very nicely ontop of the PC bashplate
I got a second recovery hook from Dawid Volschenk. They both fit very nicely ontop of the PC bashplate
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Re: Safe SNATCH Recovery Points !
I share your sentiments! I think a good set of recovery tracks/trends should get you out of most situations. I just wish you didn't almost have to sell a kidney to get a set of 4 max tracks
When in doubt throttle out !
4.8 GRX Patrol (sold)
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