Lets talk radiators

Engines and Engine Systems
Post Reply
User avatar
Alex Roux
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2724
Joined: 11 Jul 2011 10:54
Full Name: Alexander Roux
Nickname: Witblits
Home Town: Johannesburg
Current 4x4: 2004 GU 3TDi (Lexus) - aka "Witblits" (sold)
1996: GQ TB48 conversion - aka "Skilpad"
1993: GQ SWB TB42 - aka "Shortie"
1985: MQ Patrol (Safari) SD33 - aka "Toro"
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Lets talk radiators

Post by Alex Roux » 26 Apr 2019 08:12

Just before my immediate past trip (around the Okovango), I picked up that the original copper/brass radiator in Skilpad has developed a small leak.

In Maun last week, just before leaving civilisation, I gave the radiator some scrambled egg for breakfast (an old bush trick). This certainly did the job and I got through the trip without any further leaking. The long term solution cannot be the occasional egg in the morning though.

However, I have for a while been mulling over the effectiveness of my copper/brass radiator in my 4.8 GQ. The radiator is still the original from the TB42 carburattor engine (if original it is therefore more than 20 years old). Before the leak though, the cooling was in any event not as effective as it should be. But this is in no small measure also due to not having a cowling at the moment.

So I have been doing some desktop research (read "internet") on options.
One big debate is the copper/brass original factory radiator versus after-market aluminum radiators.
The following links were informative:

https://www.cgj.com/2013/06/27/aluminum ... at-debate/
https://www.cgj.com/2013/06/28/aluminum ... fferences/
https://www.cgj.com/2013/07/02/aluminum ... ptibility/
https://www.cgj.com/2013/07/10/aluminum ... intenance/
https://www.cgj.com/2013/07/16/aluminum ... -thoughts/

To spare you the detail here is the decision making final summary:
Use aluminum if the following apply:
a) The original radiator was aluminum
b) Space under the hood is limited
c) Air flow or over-heating is an issue
d) You add a bigger engine to a vehicle

e) Weight is a major consideration, such as in racing
f) The vehicle or equipment needs a heavy duty radiator to withstand additional pressure and heat
g) You are unsure of which type of radiator to use

(b), (c), and (d) certainly applies to Skilpad and possibly (f) given the hard work we put our cars through, in sand, rocks (slow moving) and dunes. Often in extreme conditions.

And here is an interesting final thought:
"Copper-brass radiator can still be used if your vehicle was designed for it. Typically this applies to antique vehicles using original parts. If you are working hard to maintain the original look of the vehicle, then you should stick with copper-brass. On the other hand, if you have heavily modified your vintage car, you may need to switch to an aluminum radiator."

So if your GQ is still original (such as the TB42s) then sticking to copper/brass is still recommended.
Skilpad, Shortie & Toro.

User avatar
Peter Connan
Moderator
Posts: 5815
Joined: 10 Sep 2010 07:21
Full Name: Peter Connan
Nickname: Piet
Home Town: Kempton Park
Current 4x4: 1996 Patrol 4.5SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Kempton Park
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 503 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Peter Connan » 28 Apr 2019 19:22

Alex, I am not entirely sure all GQ's came with copper radiators.

Mine certainly had an Aluminium one in when I got it, and it certainly looked like a factory item.

Also, I think any car with aluminium in the engine should ideally not have any copper or brass in the cooling system.
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

User avatar
Alex Roux
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2724
Joined: 11 Jul 2011 10:54
Full Name: Alexander Roux
Nickname: Witblits
Home Town: Johannesburg
Current 4x4: 2004 GU 3TDi (Lexus) - aka "Witblits" (sold)
1996: GQ TB48 conversion - aka "Skilpad"
1993: GQ SWB TB42 - aka "Shortie"
1985: MQ Patrol (Safari) SD33 - aka "Toro"
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Alex Roux » 28 Apr 2019 21:08

Interesting if they came out with either material, may depend on the factory of origin...

With aluminum in the engine...
So if certain parts of the engine is made of aluminum it should be an aluminum radiator?
Does that not then apply to certain parts o the TB48?
Skilpad, Shortie & Toro.

User avatar
Peter Connan
Moderator
Posts: 5815
Joined: 10 Sep 2010 07:21
Full Name: Peter Connan
Nickname: Piet
Home Town: Kempton Park
Current 4x4: 1996 Patrol 4.5SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Kempton Park
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 503 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Peter Connan » 29 Apr 2019 05:11

Definitely. All the TB engines have Aluminium cylinder heads.

There is a relatively large electrical potential difference between Aluminium and Copper.

At least with the TD42 you don't have that problem, but with the TD's reputation for overheating...
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

User avatar
Michael
Moderator
Posts: 2690
Joined: 05 Mar 2014 14:39
Full Name: Michael
Nickname: Steyn
Home Town: Centurion
Current 4x4: Patrol GU 4.2 Turbo Diesel
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Centurion, PTA
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 302 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Michael » 29 Apr 2019 05:52

I dont think the original coper radiators were produced for a spesific reason besides it was the common material to be used 30 years ago.

There is abselutely no benefit in using a coper radiator instead of a alluminium one. The alluminium radiators run around 10 deg cooler on the diesels and they weigh 3 times less.
The size is not relevant as Universal coolers can copy the original radiator to the mm.
"The Just shall live by Faith" Rom1:17

Check out my build here My Patrol
And my engine rebuild here mostly engine related stuff

User avatar
Tinus lotz
Moderator
Posts: 7647
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 13:07
Full Name: Tinus lotz
Nickname: Tinus lotz
Home Town: Centurion
Current 4x4: Nissan patrol 4.8 GRX 2005

Toyota 2.7 legend 35 LWB 4X4
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 649 times
Been thanked: 389 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Tinus lotz » 29 Apr 2019 08:06

Alli is the way forward .....we saw it afer pleanty testing ect ....the heat exchange happens so much faster . Just dont paint it it makes problems if you do that . Mr Boegman went for one also for his GQ iam sure they have the drawings ....
Getting a shroud to fit will be the bigger problem but We have a lot of guys with proper measuring abilities 😃
Also ask Mr Slang what a diff it made in Chuck

User avatar
Alex Roux
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2724
Joined: 11 Jul 2011 10:54
Full Name: Alexander Roux
Nickname: Witblits
Home Town: Johannesburg
Current 4x4: 2004 GU 3TDi (Lexus) - aka "Witblits" (sold)
1996: GQ TB48 conversion - aka "Skilpad"
1993: GQ SWB TB42 - aka "Shortie"
1985: MQ Patrol (Safari) SD33 - aka "Toro"
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Alex Roux » 29 Apr 2019 08:20

Universal does shrouds too.
My shroud may differ from Boegman due to the 4.8 viscous fan
Skilpad, Shortie & Toro.

User avatar
Tinus lotz
Moderator
Posts: 7647
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 13:07
Full Name: Tinus lotz
Nickname: Tinus lotz
Home Town: Centurion
Current 4x4: Nissan patrol 4.8 GRX 2005

Toyota 2.7 legend 35 LWB 4X4
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 649 times
Been thanked: 389 times

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by Tinus lotz » 29 Apr 2019 14:37

Jip ek dink jy moet dat ons mooi meet daar

User avatar
bogeyman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 302
Joined: 24 May 2011 11:14
Full Name: Christo Boegman
Nickname: Chris
Home Town: Pretoria
Current 4x4: 2005 4.8 GRX
'95 patrol 4.2 (now 4.5) sgx plus four 4.2 diesel p/u plus 3 safari workhorses.
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Pretoria
Been thanked: 66 times
Contact:

Re: Lets talk radiators

Post by bogeyman » 30 Apr 2019 09:37

Yes , the copper radiator in my GQ was very well used.
I took the whole car to Universal and they took measurements , but did not look happy.
After paying the deposit and waiting 6 weeks I then removed the old radiator and they used it to make exact drawings.
I had a tough time convincing them to include the additional pipe for auto box oil. This helps to keep the auto box temp correct (hot and cold.).
The new radiator works so well that I thought the temp gauge was faulty as it did not move from cold. Faulty thermostat is to blame and the car ran close to normal with it and the old radiator. Got the temp up to 2mm from cold on Sunday up the trail. New thermostat on the way.
Cost me R8800.00.

Post Reply

Return to “09. Engines”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests