Nissan Patrol 4x4 (Africa)

For those that wish to have a say but cannot attend, you may use the attached electronic version.

Then mail to the address shown a few posts above, by no later than this Friday evening (14 Jan)

Thanks

Tinus lotz wrote:Iam with you alex nearly everything on that is what i dont want from a group club ect. ...

I am with you here as well.

Playing Devil's Advocate and hopefully providing some food for thought.

The forums trips and outings have grown since I started attending 3 years ago and continue to grow to the point where most people would not be able to attend all the outings. Most formal clubs would look on in envy at what has happened. Participants have included vehicles from other brands yet I have yet to see a Nissan other than a Patrol on a trip/outing.

I think a large part of the reason for the success and growth of the forum has been the fact that it is not an official club beholden to a committee, rules, code of conduct or vehicle manufacturer. Yet everyone pitches in, there have been no incidents (well maybe the Limo but the only casualty was a Tilapia) and there is almost an unspoken code of conduct.

By definition a Patrol owner is an individual and I fear that formalising things may detract from what has made it so successful.

Therefore my only wish is that NOROC and the forum be kept separate. That way people have the option of both, one or neither. Intertwining the two would however be a recipe for neither to grow.

Now before someone starts pelting me with rotten tomatoes the above is my current opinion and is intended to stimulate debate. I am open to changing my mind if wrong. It is not meant to be pro/anti in any way.

David M wrote:Now before someone starts pelting me with rotten tomatoes the above is my current opinion and is intended to stimulate debate. I am open to changing my mind if wrong. It is not meant to be pro/anti in any way.

David

I agree that we should not tinker with the way the forum works on events at the moment.
If something works, don't fix it.

But as always, anyone (incl non Patrol drivers) are welcome to join the forum, and join in events being organised.
In my view nothing needs to change in that regard.

But the relevance and merits of a club is a different question and worth debating.

Alex Roux wrote:

David M wrote:Now before someone starts pelting me with rotten tomatoes the above is my current opinion and is intended to stimulate debate. I am open to changing my mind if wrong. It is not meant to be pro/anti in any way.

David

I agree that we should not tinker with the way the forum works on events at the moment.
If something works, don't fix it.

But as always, anyone (incl non Patrol drivers) are welcome to join the forum, and join in events being organised.
In my view nothing needs to change in that regard.

But the relevance and merits of a club is a different question and worth debating.

Agree 100%. I would like to see both strong but separate.

Regretfully, I cannot attend as it is my daughter's 21st party on Saturday - I haven't had much to do with NORC - I joined about 2 years ago, got the shirt and wore it once (at an event) and have not renewed my membership since. I personally agree with David's comments regarding our Patrol Forum and find it exactly what I am looking for. I like the casual approach without too much fuss and large gatherings with major logistics and organising etc. etc. it makes one feel obliged to participate, and then feel bad if you miss events.
The Patrol forum is so totally relaxed, it's relatively small, and everyone is pretty much like minded and not trying to compete / outdo each other. (maybe that's because we all drive the same vehicles) - that also makes for an element of exclusivity which makes me really feel good when i'm with a whole bunch of guys and all the Patrols are together (especially in convoy like the river trips) it's a very special feeling I get and makes me feel good! But then i'm a pretty private guy and not a great socialiser at the best of times. Patrol Forum works for me.

George - Any clarity about who from Nissan will be attending?

David M wrote:George - Any clarity about who from Nissan will be attending?

Morning David

Gavin Rheeder from Marketing and also people from Atlantis Nissan.

georgeb wrote:

David M wrote:George - Any clarity about who from Nissan will be attending?

Morning David

Gavin Rheeder from Marketing and also people from Atlantis Nissan.

Thanks.

The forums trips and outings have grown since I started attending 3 years ago and continue to grow to the point where most people would not be able to attend all the outings. Most formal clubs would look on in envy at what has happened. Participants have included vehicles from other brands yet I have yet to see a Nissan other than a Patrol on a trip/outing. I would say that from about 4 years ago the numbers would have been totally the opposite way around, but as time went on, many owners sold their trusy steeds and bought the best steed..... A Patrol, hence the numbers swapping

I think a large part of the reason for the success and growth of the forum has been the fact that it is not an official club beholden to a committee, rules, code of conduct or vehicle manufacturer. Yet everyone pitches in, there have been no incidents (well maybe the Limo but the only casualty was a Tilapia) and there is almost an unspoken code of conduct. ( I believe that the unspoken rules that happen withing the Patrol forum outings are a continuation from what guys have adapted to from the NORC. For example, the no drinking while driving. a few years back there were guys that would have a beer or a drink of some sorts on a trail..... and luckily for us we never had an incident - but NEVER say it cannot happen to me - and thats why you see so many dumbass youtube videos of drivers making the 4x4 industry look like a bunch of ******. This should even apply to passengers as I don't as a sober driver want to ride over someone that stumbles into my path. Please not that I am mearly saying that rules are a GOOD thing, and the Patrol and NORC guys do hopefully without being asked, follow these basic rules. Us as owners/drivers also understand that the way in which things are done can be toned down a bit, as we all probably did our time in the SANDF and also need to receive the respect that we deserve as *experienced* drivers. so rules and code of conduct work hand in hand.... if everyone sticks to the rules ( written or unwritten ) then the code of conduct will fall automatically have a fantastic outcome. So what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I believe that the way the Patrol forum conducts things from how egos an everything is concerned, is due to NORC's setting up of the rules. Look at how many outsiders have said that the Nissan guys are the most amazing guys, with great ethics !!!!

By definition a Patrol owner is an individual and I fear that formalising things may detract from what has made it so successful. (I don't believe that NORC will formalize anything. I am very much a non conformist and don't really do the club / group thing too well, as I want to do what I want, when I want. As I mentioned many pages back, I have a soft spot for NORC, as I learnt a lot..... and I mean a LOT from the knowledge that was on offer to me. I enjoyed the camaraderie that NORC had, and still has. I think the members outgrew what NORC was offering, as we weren't getting the new members into NORC as we would have liked. hence tthe reason why the outlook and focus of NORC, in my opinion needs to evolve with the members, yet still be able to offer the newcomer/new owner the opportunity to learn from a responsible bunch of fantastic people.

Therefore my only wish is that NOROC and the forum be kept separate. That way people have the option of both, one or neither. Intertwining the two would however be a recipe for neither to grow. NORC members have been piggybacking on the Patrol forum for many many years, so I have to disagree with you there. I'm guessing ( if you look back in the Patrol Archives ) that the Patrol outings was basically indirectly started by NORC guys on the forum, saying " hey lets get together at this place " due to the piggy backing on the Patrol Forum.

David, I was just commenting on what you were saying to "play devils advocate" from another perspective, and I know you know its not directed at you or anyone, purely to throw different perspectives out there....

ricster wrote:I would say that from about 4 years ago the numbers would have been totally the opposite way around, but as time went on, many owners sold their trusy steeds and bought the best steed..... A Patrol, hence the numbers swapping

Cedric, I agree that this happened, but I do not agree with the reason. Sure a few guys that used to drive Hardbodies got themselves Patrols, but that is a fraction of the reason why this happened.

ricster wrote:I believe that the unspoken rules that happen withing the Patrol forum outings are a continuation from what guys have adapted to from the NORC. ....Please not that I am nearly saying that rules are a GOOD thing, and the Patrol and NORC guys do hopefully without being asked, follow these basic rules. Us as owners/drivers also understand that the way in which things are done can be toned down a bit, as we all probably did our time in the SANDF and also need to receive the respect that we deserve as *experienced* drivers. So rules and code of conduct work hand in hand.... if everyone sticks to the rules ( written or unwritten ) then the code of conduct will fall automatically have a fantastic outcome. So what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I believe that the way the Patrol forum conducts things from how egos an everything is concerned, is due to NORC's setting up of the rules. Look at how many outsiders have said that the Nissan guys are the most amazing guys, with great ethics !!!!

Cedric, again I agree that perhaps the Patrol forum events have evolved from the original Nissan Code of Conduct etc, but the issue here may be more subtle
It is not that there should not be rules, but how the event is run. I think we are on the same page on this though.

richter wrote:I think the members outgrew what NORC was offering, as we weren't getting the new members into NORC as we would have liked. hence tthe reason why the outlook and focus of NORC, in my opinion needs to evolve with the members, yet still be able to offer the newcomer/new owner the opportunity to learn from a responsible bunch of fantastic people.

This comes back to my point early on in this thread, which is that you cannot be everything to everyone all the time.
There is a need to apply a more "instructive" style of running an event when you have a group of newbies attending, but this can be experienced as patronising to others.

richter wrote: NORC members have been piggybacking on the Patrol forum for many many years, so I have to disagree with you there. I'm guessing ( if you look back in the Patrol Archives ) that the Patrol outings was basically indirectly started by NORC guys on the forum, saying " hey lets get together at this place " due to the piggy backing on the Patrol Forum.

And this is a key point. You have to ask WHY Patrol outings were started. It is because, for a sustained period of time (from around 2013/2014), NORC did NOTHING. NO events, except for competitions in which you have to drop tennis balls in buckets, dodge banners at the AAWDC, Bridgstone etc).

And Yes, NORC did a fantastic job at hosting the AAWDC not too long ago. Credit to the organisers. But that is not what the Patrol events are about, and it is not what the forum's members want and need.
The events organised by the Patrol forum simply started to address a need that was not being addressed by NORC.