Recovery debate

Driving, recovery & more
User avatar
Peter Connan
Moderator
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 Sep 2010 07:21
Full Name: Peter Connan
Nickname: Piet
Home Town: Kempton Park
Current 4x4: 1996 Patrol 4.5SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Kempton Park
Has thanked: 707 times
Been thanked: 651 times

Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

As already mentioned, Lately I have been watching a lot of videos on Youtube by Matt's Off-road recovery.

Now while a lot of his recoveries look pretty easy (IE light vehicles not badly stuck) quite a lot of them definitely don't fall into this cetegory. On occasion he rscovers some really heavy vehicles, or some capable 4x4's that are seriously stuck.

And the thing is that he seems to break pretty much every taboo with impunity.
Don't snatch off a tow-ball: well, he has publicly called out Ronny Dahl on that.
Make sure you recover in a straight line: I have seen him snatch a guy 180 degees around in a very muddy road.
Never use a snatch rope multiple times without allowing it to rest: Whatever man. Keep going with the same rope for several hours.
Never join ropes with a bow shackle: All the time. If it allows you te get the towing vehicle into a better position, go fot it.
Never have I seen him experiencing equipment failure. He has a couple of videos where he discusses the equipment he uses and how he uses it, and he says he has never broken a bow shackle. Never have I seen him use a lanyard or a weight bag.

Now I don't have much experience with recovering badly-stuck vehicles. I have done a fair number of lighter recoveries, and been present at a couple of tough ones (but they tended to be winch recoveries). I have also been present at a couple of training courses where the dangers are heavily emphasised.

So the question is: are we too cautious? I am not saying I'm going to start using tow balls to snatch off, but if a straight recovery is problematic, I think an angled one might be worth considering.
Also, my snatch rope has been in the car for 8-10 years, but I have used it just twice. I tend to try all sorts of other things first. But now I've been thinking, if a vehicle needs 500kg to pull it out, a snatch rope is only going to apply 500kg, same as any other type of rope. So why not use it?

I also think multiple lightish snatches might be better and safer than one almighty yank.

I would love to hear some opinions on this?
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

Francois Theron
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 02 May 2009 21:31
Full Name: Francois Theron
Nickname: Francois
Home Town: Robertson
Current 4x4: 1998 Patrol GL 4.5
Home Language: Afrikaans
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by Francois Theron »

I have watched every single video of Matt, plus some. He has forgotten about recovery what most "experts" still have to learn. I think his one big saving grace are the Yankum ropes. Those things are just in another league altogether.

Also the Yank pick ups mostly come standard with pretty beefy recovery points. But then last night for the first time I saw him just loop a rope over a tow ball!

He uses very interesting recovery points on smaller vehicles like coils spring bottom perches etc. I have learned a thing of two from him and is in the process of getting myself a Yankum rope.

graham1
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 479
Joined: 15 Jun 2015 17:46
Full Name: graham robertson
Nickname: graham1
Home Town: Harties
Current 4x4: 2004 Patrol 4.8; 1999 Patrol 4.2D
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by graham1 »

All of the warnings and dangers that we’re all told about make a lot of sense to me, even if they hardly ever (or at all) go wrong. I’ll still adhere to all the warnings.
I mean, in my almost 20yrs of driving I could have gotten away with never ever wearing a seatbelt. I still wear it though.

User avatar
Peter Connan
Moderator
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 Sep 2010 07:21
Full Name: Peter Connan
Nickname: Piet
Home Town: Kempton Park
Current 4x4: 1996 Patrol 4.5SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Kempton Park
Has thanked: 707 times
Been thanked: 651 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

Francois Theron wrote:
13 Sep 2020 10:19
I have watched every single video of Matt, plus some. He has forgotten about recovery what most "experts" still have to learn. I think his one big saving grace are the Yankum ropes. Those things are just in another league altogether.

Also the Yank pick ups mostly come standard with pretty beefy recovery points. But then last night for the first time I saw him just loop a rope over a tow ball!

He uses very interesting recovery points on smaller vehicles like coils spring bottom perches etc. I have learned a thing of two from him and is in the process of getting myself a Yankum rope.
I would love to understand what is better about the Yankum than my Securetech rope? Looking at the specifications, the percentage extension seems similar? Also, the owner of Securetech has stared on 4x4 Community that their ropes can be used several times in succession? Are there other factors to keep in mind?
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

User avatar
Peter Connan
Moderator
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 Sep 2010 07:21
Full Name: Peter Connan
Nickname: Piet
Home Town: Kempton Park
Current 4x4: 1996 Patrol 4.5SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Kempton Park
Has thanked: 707 times
Been thanked: 651 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

graham1 wrote:
13 Sep 2020 12:42
All of the warnings and dangers that we’re all told about make a lot of sense to me, even if they hardly ever (or at all) go wrong. I’ll still adhere to all the warnings.
I mean, in my almost 20yrs of driving I could have gotten away with never ever wearing a seatbelt. I still wear it though.
I am still in two minds. I like the idea of using lanyards and good strong recovery points, and will omit shackles where it is easy to do so, but not to the point where I am going to replace them with soft shackles. And as far as I am concerned weight bags for snatch recoveries are pretty pointless.
And I reckon an angled recovery is something to consider when it makes sense regarding the most ideal outcome. But maybe that's just me?

Oh, and I reckon seat belts have saved my life at least twice, yet I typically take them off as soon as my speed drops below 50 or so... Mad hey?
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

NoPressure
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 12 Nov 2018 21:39
Full Name: Ruan
Nickname: Ruan
Home Town: Swakopmund
Current 4x4: 2017 Ford Ranger 3.2 D/C 4x4 Auto
2000 Nissan Patrol 4.5 GRX M/T
Home Language: Afrikaans
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by NoPressure »

I have seen some of Matt's video's on YT. He seems to be a good guy, haven't seen a video yet where he belittles the owner of the vehicle stuck for being stuck.

I am also amazed how less violent his recoveries seem compared to the Ausies. He basically seems to drive slowly until the rope is almost tight and then gives it some gas - obviously more on the heavier vehicles. Furthermore, besides the ropes he seems to build a lot of his own equipment. I think that 3 point tow ball recovery he must have built himself - hence maybe the confidence in it.

I once saw a video of a young guy "Seek Adventure " that described the different failure limits of the hard, soft shackles and the rope....seemed very logic. He basically said he would never use a hard shackle to connect 2 ropes.

Entertaining none the less - I'd stay on the side of caution

Francois Theron
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 02 May 2009 21:31
Full Name: Francois Theron
Nickname: Francois
Home Town: Robertson
Current 4x4: 1998 Patrol GL 4.5
Home Language: Afrikaans
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by Francois Theron »

Peter Connan wrote:
13 Sep 2020 21:10
Francois Theron wrote:
13 Sep 2020 10:19
I have watched every single video of Matt, plus some. He has forgotten about recovery what most "experts" still have to learn. I think his one big saving grace are the Yankum ropes. Those things are just in another league altogether.

Also the Yank pick ups mostly come standard with pretty beefy recovery points. But then last night for the first time I saw him just loop a rope over a tow ball!

He uses very interesting recovery points on smaller vehicles like coils spring bottom perches etc. I have learned a thing of two from him and is in the process of getting myself a Yankum rope.
I would love to understand what is better about the Yankum than my Securetech rope? Looking at the specifications, the percentage extension seems similar? Also, the owner of Securetech has stared on 4x4 Community that their ropes can be used several times in succession? Are there other factors to keep in mind?
Peter I am no recovery expert and no nothing about Securetech or their products. So I cannot comment on the product. I have however watched countless videos of Matt and his equipment, therefore have seen what they do, hence my comment.

I don't know if you watched the videos where he was visited by the Aussie guy (forgot his name now) where they did some comparative tests and even him was very impressed by the Yankum products.

I think the collective experience around recoveries in SA is rather limited compared to Aus and other parts. And as per usual the standard SA arrogance is all too prevalent as well!

For all I know Securetech products might be as good or better, but there are no definitive proof aka Matt's recovery videos to support this.

User avatar
Steele
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 131
Joined: 03 Jun 2020 18:29
Full Name: Gareth Steele
Nickname: Steel
Home Town: Jhb
Current 4x4: Patrol 3.0 CRD 2014
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by Steele »

My only other thought with regards angled recoveries is possible chassis damage. I'm no expert, but is there a possibility of bending the chassis if not recovering in a straight line? Massive recovery points, super strong snatch ropes, where is the weakest link? What is going to give first? :think:

Probably overkill, but I would always exhaust every possible avenue before removing the safety factors one by one....
Cheers, Gareth
I think, therefore I am........ I think?!?!?!

User avatar
bogeyman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 May 2011 11:14
Full Name: Christo Boegman
Nickname: Chris
Home Town: Pretoria
Current 4x4: 2005 4.8 GRX
'95 patrol 4.2 (now 4.5) sgx plus four 4.2 diesel p/u plus 3 safari workhorses.
Home Language: Afrikaans
Location: Pretoria
Been thanked: 78 times
Contact:

Re: Recovery debate

Post by bogeyman »

Peter,
Thank you for the very relevant topic.
As a contractor that operates frequently in inhospitable areas where no roads exist , I have been in a couple of pickles during the past 40 years.
There is a big difference between a 4x4 outing with many clever experts and all the gear you could wish for compared to a solo effort far from help or communication with life or death at stake. I have been stuck with 4x4 trucks long enough to run out of food and water.
I have also extricated 40 tonne drill rigs on Samil100"s where the drivers did not have the guts to use all the power of the large bore v10 motors and 6 wheels all locked. Big power and big chains. I usually get them out without assistance and use of momentum building techniques.

As with all things automotive there is a compromise between how much recovery gear to carry as opposed to the weight and space penalty.
The best component in the recovery toolbox is common sense augmented with a good helping of experience. Some proper equipment will help and the level of danger you expose yourself and others to must be very carefully calculated against the severity of the situation. Many times , good old fashioned hard work will be the best method. Packing rocks or cutting timber and digging will make the beer taste better later.

User avatar
ricster
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 6652
Joined: 13 Jan 2010 11:16
Full Name: Cedric Warner
Nickname: Cedric
Home Town: Alberton Gauteng
Current 4x4: '99 Nissan Patrol 4.2 Turbo Diesel
Home Language: English
Location: LA..... No not Los Angles ..... Lower Alberton, Gauteng
Has thanked: 460 times
Been thanked: 408 times

Re: Recovery debate

Post by ricster »

Yip... very true Mr Bogeyman.... bietjie bietjie maak baie
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD

Post Reply

Return to “26. Techniques”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest