Recovery debate

Driving, recovery & more
andredurand
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by andredurand »

:thumbup:
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Craig Lord
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Craig Lord »

After watching so many videos of what could happen when using improper recovery points and equipment I will never ever recover off a tow ball again or take any of the other risks such as improper recovery techniques or using underrated equipment. That being said I will admit that I do not have sufficient recovery points on my patrol yet save the factory nissan hook on the front, this is high on the list of things to do still.

Like Matt, you could go for years and get away with recovering off tow balls ect but one day is one day. Maybe after all these years and recoveies hes getting complacent? If there is a stress point or a flaw in the manufacturing process of the tow ball or the recover point/strap is damaged/underrated you may wind up dead or worse someone else may end up in bad trouble. In my mind it's a no brainer :mytwocents: take your time, try everything else before resorting to the winch/snatch rope (digging,track building) try to have as little hard objects involved in the recovery as possible and stay out of the danger zone if you arent in the vehicle. The new soft shackles these days are looking better and better...

Have you guys ever watched what happened to the guys from All 4 Adventure when they went too far on an angled snatch recovery? I guess there is always a limit and thier vehicles are quite top heavy by the looks of it...

https://youtu.be/f8trkgFX6wI
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

Steele wrote:
14 Sep 2020 09:22
My only other thought with regards angled recoveries is possible chassis damage. I'm no expert, but is there a possibility of bending the chassis if not recovering in a straight line? Massive recovery points, super strong snatch ropes, where is the weakest link? What is going to give first? :think:
Most recovery points are mounted on just one chassis rail, thus even a straight recovery is an angled recovery from the chassis's point of view?
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Peter Connan
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

bogeyman wrote:
15 Sep 2020 13:36
Peter,
The best component in the recovery toolbox is common sense augmented with a good helping of experience. Some proper equipment will help and the level of danger you expose yourself and others to must be very carefully calculated against the severity of the situation. Many times , good old fashioned hard work will be the best method. Packing rocks or cutting timber and digging will make the beer taste better later.
This, as you say, is probably the crux of the matter. But most of us have very little experience. I guess we try to use a lot of that common sense to avoid getting stuck in the first place, but most of us don't really have too many opportunities to get stuck in sand or mud, as both are actually pretty scarce where we live. Speaking for myself only, I have never had my patrol stuck in either sand or mud. I've high-centered it a few times, and in most cases just a few guys pushing got it off.

I have been stuck in both sand and mud, but really only in 2wd vehicles, which means the situation wasn't really all that bad. A 2wd is much easier to recover than a 4wd under those situations, because firstly it can't get as badly stuck, and secondly the vehicles I am referring to were much lighter than a Patrol.
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Peter Connan
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

Craig Lord wrote:
15 Sep 2020 20:03
After watching so many videos of what could happen when using improper recovery points and equipment I will never ever recover off a tow ball again or take any of the other risks such as improper recovery techniques or using underrated equipment. That being said I will admit that I do not have sufficient recovery points on my patrol yet save the factory nissan hook on the front, this is high on the list of things to do still.

Like Matt, you could go for years and get away with recovering off tow balls ect but one day is one day. Maybe after all these years and recoveies hes getting complacent? If there is a stress point or a flaw in the manufacturing process of the tow ball or the recover point/strap is damaged/underrated you may wind up dead or worse someone else may end up in bad trouble. In my mind it's a no brainer :mytwocents: take your time, try everything else before resorting to the winch/snatch rope (digging,track building) try to have as little hard objects involved in the recovery as possible and stay out of the danger zone if you arent in the vehicle. The new soft shackles these days are looking better and better...

Have you guys ever watched what happened to the guys from All 4 Adventure when they went too far on an angled snatch recovery? I guess there is always a limit and thier vehicles are quite top heavy by the looks of it...

https://youtu.be/f8trkgFX6wI
I had not seen that video. As you say, those two cruisers are EXTREMELY top heavy, and just heavy in general. I also don't understand why he was crabbing along the edge rather than getting up onto the hard ground and working from there. Also, when I said angled recovery, I was not even considering the towing vehicle, only the towed. Angling the towing vehicle on a snatch recovery is probably never a good idea.
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Grant
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Grant »

Spent 6 months in Tiffies in the Army and did the recovery course with a ratel stuck in mud. Our recover vehicle was a Wit Hings and a snatch rope of epic proportions. Sargent Major had us walk the route and place markers were the tension would start and then more importantly where to stop pulling. Each snatch Rope was rested for the obligatory 6 hours and was amazing to see how it shrinks. Beware if you did not follow the protocols and tis is what we as overlanders need to practice.

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Re: Recovery debate

Post by biggles »

You can apply the Kruger Dunning Effect to recoveries and it explains everything.

Image

When you know nothing, you have no skill and a lot of confidence. You basically know nuttin' but "what could possibly go wrong" is said internally a lot. These people are frequently 15 second Youtube stars and sometimes die. We were all there... some may still be :wink: My "Mount Stupid" Kruger Dunning resulted in a flooded jeep.

Then you realise you know nothing... but you still know nuttin'. The valley of dispair. This is when you spend a lot of time watching recovery videos, researching breaking strains and having long forum arguments about towball recoveries. This is the sweet spot that outdoor 4x4 supply shops love you to be in by the way. And a group of people in this stage will agonize for hours about the best way to do a recovery...

Competency is where most people end up after years of recreational recoveries. They will sweep in and recover people in the valley of despair and stand well back from "Mount Stupid"

Then you get Matt who is a Guru. Matt knows exactly how much he can push all of the equipment without breaking it. Have you see how he eyeballs some of the recoveries when he is working out how he is going to do it, there are cogs whirring away there. Do yourself a favour and pause the video just before they discuss how they will recover and write down how you would have done it. When see how a Guru does it :clap:
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by JohnBoyZA »

excellent :rolling:
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Peter Connan
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by Peter Connan »

Great post Steve!
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Re: Recovery debate

Post by ricster »

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: EPIC !!!
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