What tyres to buy

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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by mvcoller »

More on the Sailuns:

https://simpletire.com/brands/sailun...a-t-4s/reviews


Open and read each review, the guys are raving about them, looks like the AT is as good as you will need, even in mud and general offroad....
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by davidvdm »

Ja, I am happy to give these a bash, and even put one of the old Mitchelins on as a spare. Trying to shake the money tree right now. Doubt that special is going to be around for long
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by davidvdm »

Sailuns 33/12.5/15 sold out at Errols. I tried placing an order and spoke to Errols themselves. Not sure other sizes.
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by mvcoller »

Try John Hartman +27827877353, see if he can help. He found the tyres for me....
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by davidvdm »

Waiting for a scrap yard to confirm a set of 35" BF muds condition for 8K. Only 4 in the set, and will have to run one of the old Michelin 33s as the spare, but that is truly the cheapest I have found
This is the second time I am just buying tyres for a one way trip. I had to do it with the caravan I brought down here after I lost the first tyre less than 50km from home. Not many people willing to pay the premium price of a commercial 13" tyre. Passenger tyres on a caravan just dont work.

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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by JohnBoyZA »

mvcoller wrote: 09 Oct 2020 08:03 Who here knows what 6pr, 8pr or 10pr really means?
Malcolm, was discussed a few years ago on the forum but couldn't remember the answer so i googled again :think:

What is meant by “Ply Rating?” i.e. PR
In the early days of bias tires, casing strength was built up by adding layer upon layer of cotton fabric. The layers were placed with the thread in each layer at an angle to each other. That added strength, because the tensions would be distributed throughout the layers of fabric. The Ply Rating used to refer to the number of layers of cotton.
Why aren’t there any odd numbers? Since you have to have at least two plies to have a “bias” arrangement, bias ply tires always had an even number of plies. Is cotton still used? Cotton went away a long time ago. One of the major improvements was making plies out of nylon. Nylon is so much stronger that if you’re old enough, you may remember seeing your tires stamped with the words, “2 Ply/4 Ply Rating.” That meant there were only two nylon plies, but they were so strong the tire was equivalent to one made of four cotton plies. And that’s about when things started to get complicated. How so? Ply materials continued to improve, especially with the introduction of steel ply materials and radial construction, making the old Ply Number less and less meaningful. And that resulted in the newer designation we use today, called “Load Range.” On the chart, you can see how today’s Load Ranges correspond to the older Ply Rating system. And why isn’t there an “I” or a “K” Load Range?
Ply Rating Load Range
2 A
4 B
6 C
8 D
10 E
12 F
14 G
16 H
18 J
20 L
Just to avoid confusion. An “I” might, depending on the typeface, look like the numeral “1" and “K” is a very common abbreviation for “kilo” meaning “thousand."
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by mvcoller »

So to take it a bit further, the term PR or "Ply Rating" today the is only used as a comparison.

It therefore means that 8 PR means that the radial tyre that you buy today with a 8 PR means that that tyre carcass is as rigid/strong as an old cross ply tyre with 8 cotton plies, same as that a 10 PR tyre being as rigid/strong as a cross ply tyre made from ten plies of cotton.

There was however a problem with tyres with that many plies. The more plies a tyre had, obviously the thicker the tread portion and sidewalls became. This caused the tyre to overheat (due to the tyre flexing and the thick rubber unable to shed this heat) and then disintegrate. And the higher the speed, the faster the tyre overheated.

So manufacturers started looking for stronger material than cotton. It was no longer fit for purpose of the ever increasing speeds of motor vehicles. Back in the mid 1930s Alfa Romeo built a Race Car with two engines (front and rear mounted) in a quest to dominate the beginnings of what today is F1.

They had a problem was that at old Nuremberg long track (28.265 km per lap) they had to come in every lap for new tyres, as the power and speed of the vehicle (1935 Alfa Romeo Bi-Motore) ** would shred and destroy the tyres if they tried to do more than one lap with a set the tyres. With the 1936 Alfa Romeo Bimotore, Scuderia Ferrari ran this car, but the essentials were all Alfa Romeo. The twin-motor setup had an engine to the front and to the rear of the driver, feeding a central gearbox, producing 500bhp and a top speed of 200mph in a light chassis. However, the power was too much for the tyres of the time to cope with, wasting the engine's performance...

Just as an aside - despite this restriction, they still beat the main opposition, Mercedes Benz, on some occasions.

A solution came in the 1950s when nylon was developed by scientists trying to find better and cheaper clothing materials. Nylon revolutionised the ladies silk stocking by making it from the stronger and much cheaper nylon. Nylon stockings brought stockings within reach of most women.

But it also revolutionised the tyre industry. Tyres made with nylon plies i.s.o. cotton plies could be made of fewer plies, resulting in thinner sidewalls and treads with less heat build-up. With this new miracle material, they soon developed radial ply tyres, making tyres even stronger.

Cross ply tyres were constructed with the plies running the same direction of the tread and plies crossing 90 degrees across this initial tread, and and folded over the bead. These plies were obviously separated by a thin layer of rubber, bonding the plies together, which soon (with more plies) caused the tyre casing to become too thick.

Radial ply tyres were developed with the plies running at 45 degrees to the tread, but still at 90 degrees to each other. With the nylon being many times stronger than cotton, tyres were lighter, stronger and sidewalls (and to a degree treads as well) became much thinner for the same strength. Steel wire was also introduced into the tread plies of radials. Today another and very strong synthetic material, Kevlar, is also used in tyre casing construction.

This made higher speeds possible and blowouts at speed less frequent. The older members will remember going on holiday with parents in the 1950s and even in the 1960s and a tyre would burst for no reason while travelling. That was the nature of cotton fibre cross ply tyres.

Cross ply tyres are still made, many armies and farmers still use them. Often referred to as Jeep tyres these tyres today no longer use cotton as construction material.

As the world progressed, stronger rayon replaced nylon and synthetic rubber replaced natural rubber to improve tyres, meaning load and speed ratings increased. With rubber being synthetic it was possible to change tyre rubber compounds, to make tyre life longer or to make their grip better.

Think here of F1 tyres, with different compound dry tyres and the super-soft wet weather rubber compounds.

But through all this, the plies built into tyres remained the standard of strength of tyres. With the modern tyres, It was never really relating the true situation, Nylon and Rayon plies making that redundant. It did however remain an industry standard of how to express the casing strength. It has however evolved from "8 plies" to "8PR" or more accurately "8 ply rating" meaning it is RATED as strong "as strong as an 8 ply (old fashioned cotton plies) tyre.

There are obviously shortcomings with thus standard. It often confuses people into thinking that it means the tyres has 8 plies of modern Rayon or Nylon, which obviously is not the case. It also does not describe the real number of construction plies in the tread area or the sidewalls. For that you have to read the legend on the sidewall.

Often a 10PR tyre has a 3 ply sidewall, but is by no means an industry standard. But the old adage still holds true. Thicker sidewalls and tread area (i.e. heavier tyres) still causes heat build-up. To counter this, the manufacturers then brought in the concept of lower speed rating (according to construction and plies) to legally protect themselves and their reputations. It is a theoretical (but in a way, real) limitations, as the owner of the tyre can still fit it to a vehicle and exceed the rated speed. Fitment centres should issue warnings in such cases, but we all know what happens these days....

So how does a speed rating on a tyre work.

Does it mean if a tyre is rated for 160kph, that you cannot safely exceed 160kph?

Departments Of Transport (real ones, like in the North America, Europe and other places) says such a tyre must be able to run at 160kph, with a full load (this is where the load rating also comes in) continously for one hour, without any damage occurring to the tyre...

I hope this has cleared up some questions around modern tyres and how they are rated for strength, load and speed....



** In 1935, to compete with Mercedes Benz and Auto Union, Enzo Ferrari (Race team manager) and Luigi Bazzi (Designer) built a racer with two 3.2 (3.165-litre) straight 8 cylinder engines, one in the front and one in the rear, giving 6.3 litres and 540 bhp (403 kW). The drivetrain layout was unusual. The two engines were connected by separate driveshafts to a centre gearbox with two input shafts, and two angled output shafts, one from each side (left and right) of the gearbox, so each of the rear wheels had its own driveshaft. It could never quite succeed against the Mercedes W25 B of Rudolf Caracciola, as it was too heavy on fuel (for two engines) and too hard on tyres. The gain in speed was offset by increased pit times.

On May 12, 1935, two were entered in the Tripoli Grand Prix driven by Nuvolari and Chiron who finished fourth and fifth. Chiron managed a second at the following 1935 Avus race.

On June 16, 1935 Nuvolari drove a specially prepared Bimotore from Florence to Livorno and set a new top speed record 364 km/h (226 mph) with an average speed of over 323 km/h (201 mph). It must be remembered that those tyres would maybe be sililar to tyres today found on maybe a 200 cc motorcycle!
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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by Forest »

Tinus lotz wrote:Maxxis are giving us good deals tell me what tipe like at or muds and your email and they will send a price to you ...iam very happy with my razors
Thanks Tinus.

I'll be in touch when I'm due for my new set probably early 2021

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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by Forest »

Schalk wrote:Howzit everyone.
So my hankook dynapro RF10 A/t tyres are on their last little bit of thread, whats a decent set of A/t tyres to get these days.

Ive been through khumos, bridgestones, maxxis, and coopers and 2 sets of hankooks.
ps. not a big fan of BF goodrich.

Im currently looking at the dunlop at5 a/t, or just getting another set of hankooks.

i drive about 30% dirt and offroad and the rest black top.
Hi Schalk

As I mentioned in my previous post I'd opt for a hybrid AT as i like to playon the trails.

The hybrid will hopefully perform better than a average AT off road and will probably give better milage than a Mud Terrain used primarilyon tar. Both the Mickey Thompson ATZ p3 and the new Maxxis Razor AT811 tick this box. Being a more aggressive than the average AT.

Based on Errols tires current price for 285/70R17 the MT ATZ is about R600 more per tire. Tinus mentioned a discount on maxxis tires thus making the maxxis more affordable.

Youtube videos available for MT reviews indicate mixed offroad use the MT gives about 60k km on mixed offroad conditions. There are not many reviews out on the Maxxis as the tire is relatively new on the market.

The maxxis AT is based off of the very popular maxxis Razor Mud Terrain so I think the maxxis would be a good bet.

I've added a pic of each tire. Both look good.

Good luck with the decision on what tires to buy, keep us updated on what you end up fittingImageImage

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Re: What tyres to buy

Post by ricster »

Schalk, you know me... I'm a Kumho fan through and through... Have a look at the Kumho MT51. They are muddies, but beautiful on tar, and are EPIC on rocks and sand from the few trails I have done. I've had them just under a year now and am not sorry at all. Reasonably priced too !!!
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