Water Injection System

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi fellow Patrol(ers),

Has anybody heard of the water injection system?? Upon doing enquiries on the installation and cost of having an EGT meter fitted to my vehicle the one person replied to me and also suggested the installation of a water injection system on my future to do list. It works with a water and alcohol mixture (50/50) apparently. Have anybody heard of it or have anybody had such an installation done on their vehicles?? What is the difference between a water cooled intercooler system and this?? Does anybody know which one is more efficient?? They say it is particular beneficiary on especially the diesel turbo charged vehicles - and I have been considering modifying my Patrol to a water cooled intercooler system - has anybody done this modification??

My main reason for considering this change is that I do a lot of towing with my vehicle.

I am not very technical minded unfortunately (blond generation) - so if anybody is interested to find out more there is a website where this water injection system is described - www.alcohol-injection.com Perhaps there is some of our more educated Patrol(ers) that can sheer some light on this subject please!!!

Regards

[Herrie]

Sounds interresting!

[Ratau]

Pieter

Go to “Bully Dog” www.bullydog.com they did water injection on the GM and Cummins diesels in the USA.

www.raceindustry.com/index.html?detailedlisting=8792
www.racepages.com/brand/bully_dog.html

Apparently it cools the forced air down and creates “super steam” in the combustion stroke. The injector or spray nozzle is fitted just before the turbo into the intake ducting.

[Ratau]

Pieter

Propane injection is an alternative to think about. It’s power on demand and you don’t have to open up the injection pump. It’s normally set the open the valve at a preset turbo boost example 5 psi. In other words if you drive on flat road the engine don’t work hard and the boost is low but when you hit the hills the engine work hard the boost goes higher and the propane is injected adding more fuel to make more power. Propane also burns cleaner than diesel and therefore cleans the carbon from the engine.

Water injection

http://www.greaseolineplus.com/page2.html

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72643

http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/DIS_WP.pdf

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~rutland/ ... 1-2938.pdf


Propane injection

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Fastest-W ... &id=269770

http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/

http://www.fourwheeler.com/brandpages/1 ... index.html

http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/ ... for-diesel

[ChristoSlang]

It's common (well, in some circles anyway!) to extract the utmost from your turbo-charged street car.

The problem with petrol engines is that you can't just increase your boost level much above 0.8 bar without running into detonation issues. This is especially bad in hotter climates (like us here in SA) with lower octane fuel (no 98), so they use water injection to counter those effects and then crank up the boost. Detonation is what makes diesel work, so there I guess the result is to limit EGT? The Opel OPC owners (I'm also one when I'm on tar) swear by Coolingmist and Aquamist. Local agents are available for both, but I do not know how much expertise there is from those folks in getting them set up correctly on a diesel Patrol.

My Patrol has a fan on the intercooler that's turned on automagically (by the Madman engine monitoring system) once the coolant termperature exceeds a certain preset level. That, together with a larger diameter exhaust (3"), seems to keep my EGTs in check. But then again I don't use the car for towing...

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Christo (and all other input contributors),

Thanks for all the references, web addresses and inputs - but I am not yet much wiser than I was before. That this water injection system is very much beneficiary is no doubt - it is even rated to be better than a water intercooler system itself - or so say the wise men!!!! And that's is exactly my problem / issue - I do a huge amount of towing - I own a Conquerer Conquest Trailor as well fully setup for my family of 4 - and it goes everywhere with us when trips involve overnighting - and when loaded it is quite heavy!!! That is when I experience overheating problems - towing uphill - going on a flat road never seems to be a problem - very frustrating!!

I have had my termostat also replaced with the last service (June) - it also did not open to its full capacity when tested. But I am still to test the vehicle under towing conditions again. We are doing a long distance 4x4 trip the longweekend of 7 - 10 August - that is why I am contemplating the EGT installation now before that weekend. Once I have that and done the weekend trip I will most probably only be able to asses if I still have a problem!!?? That's why I am interested in this water injection system - for incase I must go another step in protecting my engine. I have experienced huge frustrations with this overheating problem when towing!!!!

[Ross]

I have wondered about this product before as well. It sounds good, but I havn`t heard of anyone who`s actually used it.

I`ve read a lot of pro`s....but whats the down side?? Is there any trade of here with engine life?

Check out this product that I found that is offered locally:

http://www.autostyle.co.za/prodview.php ... dstr=&str=

I would love to hear some first hand experience of these products/mods.....

[tour de frans]

Hello,I played around with water and hydrogen on different vehicles.Some work pretty good some did not,that include the little explotions I had trying things to get more gas(Browns gas).On my 4L ranger I got about 100kms more on a tank off fuel.Driving it light peddal.But driving it harder no difference.On the dyno at full throttle the Ford made 6kw more power and at 60% throttle 10kw more.These tests is done back to back with a laptop next to me to see exactly the tps and so on,via a uni-chip.(I am a uni-chip agent)Then I did it on a Opel Vivaro bus turbo diesel.This vehicle run about 12000km a month, so we tested over a month.No diffrence,but the driver phone the next day and said the bus does not feel so nippy anymore.Anyway,I stoped the tests because more people phoned aboud the convertion and I could not guarantee a save setup that worked.I wanted to send my hydro generator to stellenbosh university for tests to see how many BTU's the box made.Never got to that,but what I do know is to run a big enjine or turbo enjine,the size off the hydro generator will be the size off the car,to see a big difference.Water injection is very old on enjins,there are vehicles running on water only,but with major enjin mods.
Gas on diesel work too so I heard never tried it.I managed to get a gas controller and want to fit it to my car,I am going to try it later.
Back to your car,gas and water injection will give you more power,but more power is more energy and all that is more heat.Hard working turbo diesel Patrols have a hot problem.Bigger radiator will do the job and I saw on the dyno with my Patrol the bottom radiator hose suck close(flat) there for no sirclulation.I supported the pipe with wire inside and no problem.I run high boost and work hard with the car without any overheating problems.The egt's are no higher than 650deg.
Rdgs Frans

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Frans and Ross,

Thanks for web address Ross - I have logged a query with them regarding use in 4x4 vehicles and wait to see there response. I will let you know if they reply with any significant info. It seems to me however that these "systems" are pretty common amongst the "fast cars or street racers" - but not commonly in the 4x4 community!!

Frans thank you for your advise on the radiator hose - I will most definately have this checked out as well. I also had a perfomance chip (I suppose it is the same as the uni-chip you refer to) fitted to my Diesel Patrol - but that was last year already. And apart from an increase in kw and having it dyno tuned I have not yet experienced any problems - but have been wondering whether my overheating problems could be an extension of the performance chip installed??

[tour de frans]

Hi Pieter
The uni-chip are there to fine tune the car's fuel and timeing.To make it as smooth as possible and economical.The chip will not give 20kw and 40nm ea,that is a big differance in power,the chip can give you more power but not enough to make the car go hot.(Unless it is tuned very very bad.)So the car will not have a problem after a fitted chip.BUT the 4.2 turbo diesels run hot.Pieter what car do you have a 4.2 or 3l? As far as I know the 4.2 can not be chipped.
Rdgs Frans