Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
- ricster
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- Full Name: Cedric Warner
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
TOUR DE FRANS for PRESIDENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I know I said thanks before to you but there are going to be a lot more Thank you's and Dankies from me during the course of this rebuild. I think there is a "piece of mind" when I tackled this job knowing that there are some VERY "skerp" friends here that go out of there way to help.
Thanks Maneer Frans.... you are a legend !!!
Yes, I know I said thanks before to you but there are going to be a lot more Thank you's and Dankies from me during the course of this rebuild. I think there is a "piece of mind" when I tackled this job knowing that there are some VERY "skerp" friends here that go out of there way to help.
Thanks Maneer Frans.... you are a legend !!!
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
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Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
All is only a Pleasure.Dis lekker om te kan help.Dit kos niks om raad te gee nie.Ek is dankbaar ek kan die bietjie wat ek weet met julle deel.Dankie ouens/Manne.
Cedric
Not only send a pic of the turbo but the pump is the important one.The bigger turbo make sence to cool things down.The bigger turbo can deliver more air,so for the same amount off fuel and more air ,the egt wil cool down.
Your enjine broke down,and there can be fingers pointed to a lot of guys,dont go there.Fix what is wrong and do it right the first time.If you do that ,you will not look back.Your enjine broke for one reason only,Over fuel.If the hole enjin overfueled or only that one cylinder because of a dripping injector.It melted from the top and that burned torched hole went past the rings and damaged the bore.
Ceramic are peace of mind for high performance enjins.In your case you do not need that on a correct tuned 4.2 diesel Turbo.You can do it to your enjin for a extra R5000.You dont have to do that.Mine is not done,Pieter's one is not done,and he just put a hole in a 3L piston.
The keystone pistons and rings are only the name of the design.The top ring on the piston are "tuiper"to the inside of the ring.When the enjin on labour or boost.The pressure on the tuiper wil force the ring open and seal better.
The piston are a better design to.The crown are stronger and the oil squirt in the block faceing the piston squirt oil in a port under the piston crown witch spread the oil even under the crown for cooling.
No coating needed
Groete
Frans
Cedric
Not only send a pic of the turbo but the pump is the important one.The bigger turbo make sence to cool things down.The bigger turbo can deliver more air,so for the same amount off fuel and more air ,the egt wil cool down.
Your enjine broke down,and there can be fingers pointed to a lot of guys,dont go there.Fix what is wrong and do it right the first time.If you do that ,you will not look back.Your enjine broke for one reason only,Over fuel.If the hole enjin overfueled or only that one cylinder because of a dripping injector.It melted from the top and that burned torched hole went past the rings and damaged the bore.
Ceramic are peace of mind for high performance enjins.In your case you do not need that on a correct tuned 4.2 diesel Turbo.You can do it to your enjin for a extra R5000.You dont have to do that.Mine is not done,Pieter's one is not done,and he just put a hole in a 3L piston.
The keystone pistons and rings are only the name of the design.The top ring on the piston are "tuiper"to the inside of the ring.When the enjin on labour or boost.The pressure on the tuiper wil force the ring open and seal better.
The piston are a better design to.The crown are stronger and the oil squirt in the block faceing the piston squirt oil in a port under the piston crown witch spread the oil even under the crown for cooling.
No coating needed
Groete
Frans
Gu y61 wagon- 6.0L chevy
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Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
Gu y61 pickup- 6.2L chevy
Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
- ricster
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
Thanks.... my mind is now at ease !!
QUOTE: " If you fit those keystone pistons with the bigger smallend bush,You have to dummy assemble your enjine with the new parts,bearings and so.To check the deck hight of the pistons.VERY IMPORTANT"
At the moment when the piston is TDC, it looks like it is nearly flush with the top of the block. When I dummy assemble the motor with the new pistons with the bigger small end bush, will the piston not sit a little higher? Sorry, its probably a stupid question, but its bugging me. I will look at the space when I get home tonight.
As I said before I'm going to do this properly, but I have to watch the finances very closely. Do you think I should send the turbo in for a service, there was a bit of oil from the blowback in the intake and of course the exhaust turbo and intercooler, or can that wait for a few months or do I not even have to bother as the turbo is still quite new.
QUOTE: " If you fit those keystone pistons with the bigger smallend bush,You have to dummy assemble your enjine with the new parts,bearings and so.To check the deck hight of the pistons.VERY IMPORTANT"
At the moment when the piston is TDC, it looks like it is nearly flush with the top of the block. When I dummy assemble the motor with the new pistons with the bigger small end bush, will the piston not sit a little higher? Sorry, its probably a stupid question, but its bugging me. I will look at the space when I get home tonight.
As I said before I'm going to do this properly, but I have to watch the finances very closely. Do you think I should send the turbo in for a service, there was a bit of oil from the blowback in the intake and of course the exhaust turbo and intercooler, or can that wait for a few months or do I not even have to bother as the turbo is still quite new.
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
If the turbo are new and the impeller shaft do not have a lot of play,leave it for a later stage.You will find oil deposit in the turbo, intake and intercooler.The breather are to blame for that,but that is normal.
In your case drieving the car after the hole in the piston,it wil contaminate the intake,because of the extra blowby.
Fitting those bushes,the end result will be the same.The centre of the 28mm bush and the 30mm bush are the same thing.So yes you are right it will stay the same.The outer size is getting bigger.BUT,dummy assemble the enjin with the bearings and parts that is going to end up in the motor to check if all the clearances are perfect.That is one way to see if the engineering guy is worth the money.
Rdgs
In your case drieving the car after the hole in the piston,it wil contaminate the intake,because of the extra blowby.
Fitting those bushes,the end result will be the same.The centre of the 28mm bush and the 30mm bush are the same thing.So yes you are right it will stay the same.The outer size is getting bigger.BUT,dummy assemble the enjin with the bearings and parts that is going to end up in the motor to check if all the clearances are perfect.That is one way to see if the engineering guy is worth the money.
Rdgs
Gu y61 wagon- 6.0L chevy
Gu y61 pickup- 6.2L chevy
Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
Gu y61 pickup- 6.2L chevy
Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
- Russ Kellermann
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
in the 25mins it took me to read this i think i gained about 10yrs of "cyber mechanical experience"!!! sjoe frans , you the man.
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- ricster
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
Ok...I took some pics, unfortunately Swambo came home late (had to pick up laaitjie from ouma due to the school strike.... ..)so I had to use my cell phone cam which is not as good as hers.
The pump is a ZEXEL, I couldn't see a model number, but saw this stamped on next to the name 50733. If there is anything else you need let me know please. This is the turbo. Its a Wa-Line Industies. T04B.06-2
The pump is a ZEXEL, I couldn't see a model number, but saw this stamped on next to the name 50733. If there is anything else you need let me know please. This is the turbo. Its a Wa-Line Industies. T04B.06-2
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
- ricster
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
Here is one, showing the nut brazed onto the branches where the EGT probe sits
Can I run some diesel through the turbo to clean out the oil, or is that not advisable. I want to rinse out the intercooler with diesel too.
Can I run some diesel through the turbo to clean out the oil, or is that not advisable. I want to rinse out the intercooler with diesel too.
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
I have it that you should rinse it with Asetone?? [as ek nou vi jou lieg dan het Vlok vir my gelieg]
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
Cedric, I am truly sorry to hear of your bad luck, but I am equally impressed by the fact that you're already focused on getting your truck up & going again
Frans has covered pretty much everything you need to know. All I can add is that you should not blame the turbo for your misfortunes...
Even though diesel engines have nearly the same optimum stoichiometric ratio (14:6:1 vs. petrol's 14.7:1), their mixture tends to vary all the time (depending on your revs and right foot!). They also top out leaner than in a petrol engine because diesel is slow to ignite, so it cannot burn quick enough at its optimal 14.6:1 mix and just produces black smoke. This slow burning gives diesels their lower rev-limit, but because the diesel burns for so long it also gives them their characteristic torque.
A diesel engine's air intake is not throttled and is therefore a function of engine revs - higher revs sucks in more air. In a petrol engine there's a butterfly that restricts air-flow. To speed a diesel's engine up, you add more diesel to the unrestricted air that's being sucked into the engine, with a petrol engine you'll remove the air restriction to allow revs to increase while adding more fuel/air in the proper mixture.
With a modern multi-point fuel-injected petrol engine you may think that you're only injecting fuel into an air mix, but your engine's ECU is working overtime to ensure that this mix stays close to 14:7:1 so that not does not contaminate your car's catalytic converter. On your 4.2 diesel motor there is no ECU, no throttle body to limit airflow into the motor, no lambda sensor to monitor for optimal stoichiometry in the exhaust, no airflow meter to tell the ECU how much air is going into the motor so that can adjust its fueling, etc. All we have is a diesel pump that's calibrated to squirt "X" amount of fuel into the engine when the position of the accelerator is "Y" and the engine revs is "Z".
But... if your pump is not calibrated correctly, you'll add more diesel than can be burnt and end up with over-fueling. And over-fueling increases combustion temperatures in diesels. In a petrol-engined car, a lean mixture will end up burning holes in your pistons, in a diesel you'll just go slower.
Upping the boost on your diesel lowers the EGT pressures because you're forcing more air into the mix whilst retaining the same amount of diesel, effectively causing the engine to under-fuel again. There's a limit to the amount of boost you can add, but it's usually decided by how much extra torque your engine & drive-train can handle, and how much extra combustion heat (cause you'll be turning up the fueling to utilise the extra air) your engine's cooling system can cope with.
The crunch is: if you over-fuel a non-turbo diesel engine it will self-destruct just as nicely as an over-fueled turbo diesel. The key is NOT to over-fuel, and that's why we monitor our EGT's. And if you see black smoke under acceleration, reduce your fueling...
PS: Sorry for delivering episode 2 of "War & Peace", but I know you're new to the wonderful world of diesel!s
PPS: The 3.0 Patrol diesels have added ECU's, airflow meters, EGR, etc. to the mix. There's another book to be written about them...
Frans has covered pretty much everything you need to know. All I can add is that you should not blame the turbo for your misfortunes...
Even though diesel engines have nearly the same optimum stoichiometric ratio (14:6:1 vs. petrol's 14.7:1), their mixture tends to vary all the time (depending on your revs and right foot!). They also top out leaner than in a petrol engine because diesel is slow to ignite, so it cannot burn quick enough at its optimal 14.6:1 mix and just produces black smoke. This slow burning gives diesels their lower rev-limit, but because the diesel burns for so long it also gives them their characteristic torque.
A diesel engine's air intake is not throttled and is therefore a function of engine revs - higher revs sucks in more air. In a petrol engine there's a butterfly that restricts air-flow. To speed a diesel's engine up, you add more diesel to the unrestricted air that's being sucked into the engine, with a petrol engine you'll remove the air restriction to allow revs to increase while adding more fuel/air in the proper mixture.
With a modern multi-point fuel-injected petrol engine you may think that you're only injecting fuel into an air mix, but your engine's ECU is working overtime to ensure that this mix stays close to 14:7:1 so that not does not contaminate your car's catalytic converter. On your 4.2 diesel motor there is no ECU, no throttle body to limit airflow into the motor, no lambda sensor to monitor for optimal stoichiometry in the exhaust, no airflow meter to tell the ECU how much air is going into the motor so that can adjust its fueling, etc. All we have is a diesel pump that's calibrated to squirt "X" amount of fuel into the engine when the position of the accelerator is "Y" and the engine revs is "Z".
But... if your pump is not calibrated correctly, you'll add more diesel than can be burnt and end up with over-fueling. And over-fueling increases combustion temperatures in diesels. In a petrol-engined car, a lean mixture will end up burning holes in your pistons, in a diesel you'll just go slower.
Upping the boost on your diesel lowers the EGT pressures because you're forcing more air into the mix whilst retaining the same amount of diesel, effectively causing the engine to under-fuel again. There's a limit to the amount of boost you can add, but it's usually decided by how much extra torque your engine & drive-train can handle, and how much extra combustion heat (cause you'll be turning up the fueling to utilise the extra air) your engine's cooling system can cope with.
The crunch is: if you over-fuel a non-turbo diesel engine it will self-destruct just as nicely as an over-fueled turbo diesel. The key is NOT to over-fuel, and that's why we monitor our EGT's. And if you see black smoke under acceleration, reduce your fueling...
PS: Sorry for delivering episode 2 of "War & Peace", but I know you're new to the wonderful world of diesel!s
PPS: The 3.0 Patrol diesels have added ECU's, airflow meters, EGR, etc. to the mix. There's another book to be written about them...
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Re: Iron Maiden DIED !!!! ...burnt hole in the piston
Christo
Lamda 1 = 14.7 vir petrol.Full throttle = 12.9 en soos jy se diesels se AFR lyk anders,vertrou maar die egt's.
Cedric,the pump are the right one,so you can get it cheked out.Look for a number on the pump that starts with 10 or 11.It will make no diffirence it wil only tell me how good power you will make.The nr. are on a sticker on the lower end of the pump.
Clean your parts with a enjin cleaner or parrifien,all of it cooler,turbo...
Asetone sal ook werk,maar is baie sterk en moet met aandag gebruik word.Hou dit weg vanaf jou kar se bakwerk.
Groete
Frans
Lamda 1 = 14.7 vir petrol.Full throttle = 12.9 en soos jy se diesels se AFR lyk anders,vertrou maar die egt's.
Cedric,the pump are the right one,so you can get it cheked out.Look for a number on the pump that starts with 10 or 11.It will make no diffirence it wil only tell me how good power you will make.The nr. are on a sticker on the lower end of the pump.
Clean your parts with a enjin cleaner or parrifien,all of it cooler,turbo...
Asetone sal ook werk,maar is baie sterk en moet met aandag gebruik word.Hou dit weg vanaf jou kar se bakwerk.
Groete
Frans
Gu y61 wagon- 6.0L chevy
Gu y61 pickup- 6.2L chevy
Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
Gu y61 pickup- 6.2L chevy
Tour de frans - het niks met n bicycle uit te waai nie.
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