Patrol query.

[Buggsy]

Good day folks
I have +/- R1750000.00 to spend on a Patrol. I'm biased towards a diesel with automatic transmission. Is there any model that I should steer well clear of?

[ChristoSlang]

The early 3.0 diesels had some hiccups - you'll find a number of posts on this and other sites detailing them.

If you take proper precautions like servicing the motor regularly, ensuring that the diesel pump does not over-fuel (black smoke under acceleration) fitting an exhaust gas temperature monitor (should have placed this item at the very beginning!), etc. you should be fine, even with one of the early models...

Happy hunting!

[KOOS BEST]

The early 3.0 diesels had some hiccups - you'll find a number of posts on this and other sites detailing them.

If you take proper precautions like servicing the motor regularly, ensuring that the diesel pump does not over-fuel (black smoke under acceleration) fitting an exhaust gas temperature monitor (should have placed this item at the very beginning!), etc. you should be fine, even with one of the early models...

Happy hunting!

Hi Bugsby, what Christo have said is spot on.
The 2000 -2002 models were a bit suspect, by now they'll all be sorted out anyway, weel hopefully by agents and previous owners.
Try to get a post 2003 facelift model GRX spec if possible, all hiccups sorted out and go for Auto. Auto,s are just much superior off road.And it is a safety issue as well, ie. no stalling ect ect.

[JG Shields]

Hi Bugsby,

I had a 2001 model 3.0Di auto. I must confirm everything that Koss & Christo said AND YES the auto is just magnifique..... on and off-road!

JG

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Bugsby,

I have a 2002 3.0L Diesel GRX Auto - almost 145 000 km on the clock and enjoying my vehicle very much. Yes I currently have some hangs ups with my car but they are "man made" - not due the vehicle or manufacturer.

It is an awesome vehicle - and you will not regret buying one!!

In fact Koos Best on the forum here wants to sell his 2003 3.0L GRX model - but is a manual however and maybe a little bit outside your price range. If I remember correctly he wanted R180K - WHICH IS REALLY NOT A BAD BUY!! But talk to him - if I had the money and needed to buy such a vehicle now I will make an effort to get the extra cash to buy his - it is a magnificent vehicle. Check posting http://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.ph ... =850#p7663

Daar is fotos van sy kar op die 2de bladsy van die post.

[Russ Kellermann]

My 2c worth is this, if it makes any difference to your hunting;

I disagree with the comment that the Auto Box is better off road. In my opinion the only time it will be better is when you driving a petrol motor in deep sand, and i suppose, perhaps in bumper to bumper traffic.

The benefits of a manual box will always out weigh the auto:

Steep ascents and descents gear selection is judged by you
No runaway or kick-ups midway through something difficult
more fuel efficient
Far less expensive to repair if something goes bang (due to the simplicity in comparison to Auto box.)


I must however say though, that auto box's do limit how much one can damage a motor, particularly diesels, where it counts on the second hand market, as previous owner would not have been able to over-rev the motor (head gaskets,rings,etc) nor under-rev it (conrods etc).

Keep us posted
Russ

[JG Shields]

Russ,

1. Kick-up's and down can be controlled by selecting a fixed gear.
2. The gear selection process of a good auto rig is flawless ito rev, power demand etc and therefor do not stall/let you down when you need it.
3. Less mechanical stuff at risk (clutch).
4. Less wheel slip, better traction.

In a nuttshell:

a. An Auto rig is not emotional, skillful, quite clever and do not make the tipical human mistakes. Yes its a challenge for some people to overcome it.
b. If they were not the better 4x4 option, the modern military world would not have gone that way. It facinating to talk to a Denel designer on this subject.

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi Russ,

I have always liked to drive manual cars - very much for the reason that I am in control of the power I want and the revs I want to use - but that's with normal road cars. Whewn it comes to 4x4 I have also had both but unfortunately must support JG 100% in his statements. I am already on my 2nd auto 4x4 and as far as 4x4 goes will never go back to a manual. If you know how to drive an auto in a 4x4 environment it will always outperform a manual when it comes to wheel slip, power demand, stalling etc etc - like JG said.

Yes you are 100% correct an auto is more expensive and will in most cases have a higher fuel comsumption than manual - but for the safety and less mechanical wear I am willing to "take the chance" and pay the price. There is also other downside factors like towing an auto vehicle - it is not good practise to tow an auto 4x4 for long distances unless you take your propshaft off. On a hill climp going over rocks through ditches etc the auto box will be superior - going down that same hill on a decent the manual will be superior due to ability of the engine & gear selection being able to be used as a braking system. Auto has a tendancy to "run" away on a decent - even with a fixed gear selection - you need to use your brake more. Then again a mistake with a manual car on a hill decent could also result in a runaway vehicle. And so we can carry on with the name, blame and shame of manual vs auto. On the vast number of 4x4 trips I have been on it was always the manual guys running into problems - and you always smell their clutches - don't tell me that is not a sign of excessive wear!!

So once again - like with most things in life - everything has it's pro's and con's - and I think it is difficult to say which outweighs which. Personally I think it comes to personal prefferance and likings!!

My

[KOOS BEST]

My experience with Auto vs Manual, well I never owned an Auto, but in all my years of off roading, and I am talking touring through difficult terrain etc. the Auto's were by FAR superior than than the manuals.
What JG and Pieter have said I support fully. Personally for me , this is what I have personally experienced , the only down side was the heat build up of Auto boxes during extremely difficult long stretches of sand with heavy loads and the other not be able to break or descent by compression.

Russ , you said steep ascents are judged by you on a manual, sorry I have only seen Auto's getting over long sand dunes , manual had no chance or no go.

The days of saying Auto's are for old men , are long past.

[Pieter du Toit]

Personally for me , this is what I have personally experienced , the only down side was the heat build up of Auto boxes during extremely difficult long stretches of sand with heavy loads and the other not be able to break or descent by compression. The days of saying Auto's are for old men , are long past.

100% spot on Koos